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	<title>Comments on: Why can&#8217;t magic in games feel more magical?</title>
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	<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/why-cant-magic-in-games-feel-more-magical/</link>
	<description>MMOs and game design</description>
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		<title>By: Tesh</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/why-cant-magic-in-games-feel-more-magical/#comment-651</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tesh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 03:07:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1055#comment-651</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great article, Spinks!  I&#039;ve thought about this more than once over the years.

I have a good reference book titled &quot;Swords and Circuitry&quot; that hits on this at a few points.  I quote here from the book:

&quot;Ask yourself how important you want magic or technology to be in your world.  Is it powerful or weak, rare or common?  If it&#039;s powerful and rare, then the people who wield it are likely to be feared or distrusted, or revered.  Either way, it will most definitely affect their cultural and social standings.  If it&#039;s weak and common, then nobody is likely to treat it as anything special, and everybody will largely ignore its presence in the same way that we don&#039;t think much about the miracles of telephones, television or the Internet.  Establish for yourself how easy it is to access these tools of power, and be rigorous about applying that concept at every level of your world.&quot;

From that, I take the common/rare and weak/powerful axes and think a little about how those might apply in common game design.  The norm is powerful and common, by and large, so, as with anything common, it really becomes mundane.  Part of the &quot;magic&quot; of magic is that it is unusual in our real life experience, and it&#039;s a source of wonder and a little fear.

That&#039;s what made the first couple of Harry Potter books so fantastic; they explored the wonder that Harry discovered when he started discovering magic.  By the last two books, the series was little more than a teenage soap opera/coming of age story in a magical world that had long since become rather mundane.  The sense of whimsy and discovery had been lost to the machinations of the storyline.

We see the same in the industry.  Yes, magic should be magical, but it&#039;s really just treated as another set of tools and/or weapons.

I would LOVE to see a game that really digs into the nature of magic, the implications of introducing it to a world, and letting players really dig into the research and manipulation and customization of magic.  The Dragon Knight books by Gordon Dickson are part of another great series that explores the nature of magic, albeit in a very different way than the D&amp;D mechanics that we have grown accustomed to.  (Or the Final Fantasy/WoW version.)  Even Tolkien had wondrous, elaborate magicks, far from merely bending special effects to further suit rather shallow game mechanics.

Psychochild has a good article up as well, digging into mana and alternate methods of altering the combat minigame and resource management in the same.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article, Spinks!  I&#8217;ve thought about this more than once over the years.</p>
<p>I have a good reference book titled &#8220;Swords and Circuitry&#8221; that hits on this at a few points.  I quote here from the book:</p>
<p>&#8220;Ask yourself how important you want magic or technology to be in your world.  Is it powerful or weak, rare or common?  If it&#8217;s powerful and rare, then the people who wield it are likely to be feared or distrusted, or revered.  Either way, it will most definitely affect their cultural and social standings.  If it&#8217;s weak and common, then nobody is likely to treat it as anything special, and everybody will largely ignore its presence in the same way that we don&#8217;t think much about the miracles of telephones, television or the Internet.  Establish for yourself how easy it is to access these tools of power, and be rigorous about applying that concept at every level of your world.&#8221;</p>
<p>From that, I take the common/rare and weak/powerful axes and think a little about how those might apply in common game design.  The norm is powerful and common, by and large, so, as with anything common, it really becomes mundane.  Part of the &#8220;magic&#8221; of magic is that it is unusual in our real life experience, and it&#8217;s a source of wonder and a little fear.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what made the first couple of Harry Potter books so fantastic; they explored the wonder that Harry discovered when he started discovering magic.  By the last two books, the series was little more than a teenage soap opera/coming of age story in a magical world that had long since become rather mundane.  The sense of whimsy and discovery had been lost to the machinations of the storyline.</p>
<p>We see the same in the industry.  Yes, magic should be magical, but it&#8217;s really just treated as another set of tools and/or weapons.</p>
<p>I would LOVE to see a game that really digs into the nature of magic, the implications of introducing it to a world, and letting players really dig into the research and manipulation and customization of magic.  The Dragon Knight books by Gordon Dickson are part of another great series that explores the nature of magic, albeit in a very different way than the D&amp;D mechanics that we have grown accustomed to.  (Or the Final Fantasy/WoW version.)  Even Tolkien had wondrous, elaborate magicks, far from merely bending special effects to further suit rather shallow game mechanics.</p>
<p>Psychochild has a good article up as well, digging into mana and alternate methods of altering the combat minigame and resource management in the same.</p>
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		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/why-cant-magic-in-games-feel-more-magical/#comment-628</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1055#comment-628</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Could be. On the other hand, look at something like pokemon. You get pokemon who have different types of elemental attack, you train the ones you like, and you have to pick which pokemons you want to use vs specific enemies so you need to know their weaknesses too.

In some ways, playing pokemon feels way more like playing a mage than WoW does to me. Which is just weird.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could be. On the other hand, look at something like pokemon. You get pokemon who have different types of elemental attack, you train the ones you like, and you have to pick which pokemons you want to use vs specific enemies so you need to know their weaknesses too.</p>
<p>In some ways, playing pokemon feels way more like playing a mage than WoW does to me. Which is just weird.</p>
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		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/why-cant-magic-in-games-feel-more-magical/#comment-627</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1055#comment-627</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[1978? Respect :) 

I remember never really feeling happy about how magic-users and clerics fitted into the game. You don&#039;t really imagine them as typical adventurers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1978? Respect <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>I remember never really feeling happy about how magic-users and clerics fitted into the game. You don&#8217;t really imagine them as typical adventurers.</p>
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		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/why-cant-magic-in-games-feel-more-magical/#comment-620</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1055#comment-620</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m a big fan of Ars Magica, I didn&#039;t mention it here cos I thought no one would have heard of it ;) We had a fairly long running game going that was great fun.

And it&#039;d make a great MMO.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a big fan of Ars Magica, I didn&#8217;t mention it here cos I thought no one would have heard of it <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  We had a fairly long running game going that was great fun.</p>
<p>And it&#8217;d make a great MMO.</p>
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		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/why-cant-magic-in-games-feel-more-magical/#comment-619</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1055#comment-619</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I do find that cool as an idea. It just sounds awesome to have to go study ancient languages from other players. I mean, I can see why people would find that annoying but I still think it&#039;s cool.

I guess part of the problem is that you leave casters with a different (and rather more expensive) minigame compared to melee classes?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do find that cool as an idea. It just sounds awesome to have to go study ancient languages from other players. I mean, I can see why people would find that annoying but I still think it&#8217;s cool.</p>
<p>I guess part of the problem is that you leave casters with a different (and rather more expensive) minigame compared to melee classes?</p>
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		<title>By: Vads</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/why-cant-magic-in-games-feel-more-magical/#comment-618</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vads]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1055#comment-618</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I suspect its not as much that it wouldn&#039;t feel heroic enough, it would just require way too much brainwork to be enjoyable for the target mass subscribing to World of Warcraft.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect its not as much that it wouldn&#8217;t feel heroic enough, it would just require way too much brainwork to be enjoyable for the target mass subscribing to World of Warcraft.</p>
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		<title>By: Ysharros</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/why-cant-magic-in-games-feel-more-magical/#comment-617</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ysharros]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 13:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1055#comment-617</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@stabs - LMAO I know exactly what you mean.

Introduce players to the wonders of physics when they cast a fireball into a 10x10 foot room with their friends in front of them and they&#039;ll soon learn. (Or down a dead-end corridor, etc etc. The possibilities for DM &quot;hey, this is what would happen!&quot; evil are endless.) Though in all fairness our group was awesome and we ended up playing Ars Magica, so I guess we had the crotchety studying magus thing down pretty well.

I suspect it comes down to the old &quot;it&#039;s not heroic&quot; enough. Designers DO just assume everyone wants to hit things and/or carry a big gun because it&#039;s what many of them want to do. It&#039;s not about learning how to do magic (and spending the time to become so damned knowledgeable), it&#039;s about loading up on fireballs and lightning bolts. The whole idea of the wizard as solitary keeper of lore (and as someone who has had to study his ass off to learn &amp; manipulate all this freaky magic stuff) is vanishing, and it&#039;s vanishing from fantasy literature too. Now it&#039;s mostly about tapping into the &quot;stream of magic&quot; which is basically the wizardy version of having a big honkin&#039; gun.

Meh.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@stabs &#8211; LMAO I know exactly what you mean.</p>
<p>Introduce players to the wonders of physics when they cast a fireball into a 10&#215;10 foot room with their friends in front of them and they&#8217;ll soon learn. (Or down a dead-end corridor, etc etc. The possibilities for DM &#8220;hey, this is what would happen!&#8221; evil are endless.) Though in all fairness our group was awesome and we ended up playing Ars Magica, so I guess we had the crotchety studying magus thing down pretty well.</p>
<p>I suspect it comes down to the old &#8220;it&#8217;s not heroic&#8221; enough. Designers DO just assume everyone wants to hit things and/or carry a big gun because it&#8217;s what many of them want to do. It&#8217;s not about learning how to do magic (and spending the time to become so damned knowledgeable), it&#8217;s about loading up on fireballs and lightning bolts. The whole idea of the wizard as solitary keeper of lore (and as someone who has had to study his ass off to learn &amp; manipulate all this freaky magic stuff) is vanishing, and it&#8217;s vanishing from fantasy literature too. Now it&#8217;s mostly about tapping into the &#8220;stream of magic&#8221; which is basically the wizardy version of having a big honkin&#8217; gun.</p>
<p>Meh.</p>
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		<title>By: tipa</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/why-cant-magic-in-games-feel-more-magical/#comment-616</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tipa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 11:57:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1055#comment-616</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Back in original EQ, casters could buy only a very few of their spells. Most spells had to be researched by finding scraps of lore while adventuring (or buying them from other people) and trying to assemble them into a spell. The secrets of how to assemble these were written in tomes which you could sometimes find or buy which were written in long ago dead languages. This meant seeking out a PLAYER who knew the language and studying it from them, which would allow you to read the recipe, which would allow you to combine the spell bits, which, if your skill at spell research was high enough, perhaps give you the spell.

No other game has copied this, perhaps because people really just want to be point and click killers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back in original EQ, casters could buy only a very few of their spells. Most spells had to be researched by finding scraps of lore while adventuring (or buying them from other people) and trying to assemble them into a spell. The secrets of how to assemble these were written in tomes which you could sometimes find or buy which were written in long ago dead languages. This meant seeking out a PLAYER who knew the language and studying it from them, which would allow you to read the recipe, which would allow you to combine the spell bits, which, if your skill at spell research was high enough, perhaps give you the spell.</p>
<p>No other game has copied this, perhaps because people really just want to be point and click killers.</p>
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		<title>By: Stabs</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/why-cant-magic-in-games-feel-more-magical/#comment-615</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stabs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 09:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1055#comment-615</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know where you&#039;re coming from.

However it has been like this for a very long time. I began playing AD&amp;D in 1978 and players were already using Wizards as a shotgun loaded with Fireball-calibre ammo even back then.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know where you&#8217;re coming from.</p>
<p>However it has been like this for a very long time. I began playing AD&amp;D in 1978 and players were already using Wizards as a shotgun loaded with Fireball-calibre ammo even back then.</p>
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