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	<title>Comments on: How&#8217;s dual specs working out for you?</title>
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	<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/05/07/hows-dual-specs-working-out-for-you/</link>
	<description>MMOs and game design</description>
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		<title>By: Tesh</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/05/07/hows-dual-specs-working-out-for-you/#comment-926</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tesh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 16:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1322#comment-926</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agreed on all counts.

Maybe you&#039;re just stating the obvious there, but I&#039;ll echo it:  I really do think that many if not most devs don&#039;t want people playing generalists.  They are trickier to tune.  Whether it&#039;s conscious or not, I don&#039;t think that devs really want to deal with making that sort of subtle variability in a class work in all potential situations.

It&#039;s pretty easy to fire up a DPS, Healer or Tank class and tune the numbers (which is why the trinity is easy to use; it&#039;s pretty simple design), but when you&#039;ve got a character that can do almost anything, well... that&#039;s more work to develop.

Still, I&#039;d rather *play* a well-designed jack of all trades than a one-note flute.  Even if it winds up undertuned and underpowered, I wind up getting more out of it.  That&#039;s just me, though. *shrug*]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed on all counts.</p>
<p>Maybe you&#8217;re just stating the obvious there, but I&#8217;ll echo it:  I really do think that many if not most devs don&#8217;t want people playing generalists.  They are trickier to tune.  Whether it&#8217;s conscious or not, I don&#8217;t think that devs really want to deal with making that sort of subtle variability in a class work in all potential situations.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s pretty easy to fire up a DPS, Healer or Tank class and tune the numbers (which is why the trinity is easy to use; it&#8217;s pretty simple design), but when you&#8217;ve got a character that can do almost anything, well&#8230; that&#8217;s more work to develop.</p>
<p>Still, I&#8217;d rather *play* a well-designed jack of all trades than a one-note flute.  Even if it winds up undertuned and underpowered, I wind up getting more out of it.  That&#8217;s just me, though. *shrug*</p>
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		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/05/07/hows-dual-specs-working-out-for-you/#comment-921</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 09:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1322#comment-921</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think I&#039;m a bit burned out on jack of all trades classes. Every time I&#039;ve played one, it turned out to be really undertuned compared to the (more boring) pure classes. It&#039;s almost like they don&#039;t want you to be able to do lots of different things well :) 

But I do remember as a new player it seemed clear to me that it was better to put a few points in lots of different talents than to heavily specialise. I don&#039;t think I have ever forgiven MMOs for being so achievement-focussed that everyone else would sneer if you did that.

But yeah I hear you totally. Why should you want to do the same thing every time you log in?

I have read Raph&#039;s article and honestly I&#039;m a huge fan. One of the things I love about both his writing and Richard Bartle&#039;s is that they so totally /get/ the things I personally care about in games. I know that sounds arrogant but I&#039;m so happy that it isn&#039;t just me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I&#8217;m a bit burned out on jack of all trades classes. Every time I&#8217;ve played one, it turned out to be really undertuned compared to the (more boring) pure classes. It&#8217;s almost like they don&#8217;t want you to be able to do lots of different things well <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>But I do remember as a new player it seemed clear to me that it was better to put a few points in lots of different talents than to heavily specialise. I don&#8217;t think I have ever forgiven MMOs for being so achievement-focussed that everyone else would sneer if you did that.</p>
<p>But yeah I hear you totally. Why should you want to do the same thing every time you log in?</p>
<p>I have read Raph&#8217;s article and honestly I&#8217;m a huge fan. One of the things I love about both his writing and Richard Bartle&#8217;s is that they so totally /get/ the things I personally care about in games. I know that sounds arrogant but I&#8217;m so happy that it isn&#8217;t just me.</p>
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		<title>By: Tesh</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/05/07/hows-dual-specs-working-out-for-you/#comment-919</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tesh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 17:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1322#comment-919</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;But what does that say about the whole core design features that players should pick a role when they first create a character and never deviate from it?&quot;

I&#039;ve railed against this for a while now.  I count flexibility a huge plus, to the extent that any game I design will be very flexible, and any game I pay to play will offer flexibility.

This is especially true in an MMO, where the game is overwhelmingly repetitious by design.  I want the ability to approach the game in different ways without alts.

&quot;I think that if we’re ever going to really escape the tyranny of class specialisation, MMOs need to provide more non-fighting things to do.&quot;

Aye, indeedy.  The &quot;combat all the time&quot; mantra is a huge part of the grind and ennui.  It&#039;s fine for a while, but it&#039;s terribly shallow when it comes to &quot;virtual world&quot; design.  Have you read Raph&#039;s &quot;The Evil We Pretend To&quot; article?

I&#039;ve also suspected that PUGs would go smoother with Dual Spec.  (A theme I expanded upon when rambling about giving *everyone* a tank/dps/healing triad of specs.)  Mechanics like this that make it *easier* for people to get together and play are far more palatable to me than those that *force* people to get together.  Soft sell vs. hard sell, as it were.

Of course, I&#039;m biased, always going for the &quot;jack of all trades&quot; sorts of characters, even in a strict class design.  Sometimes that works, like WoW&#039;s Druid, sometimes it doesn&#039;t.  I simply don&#039;t always want to do the same thing every time I log in.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But what does that say about the whole core design features that players should pick a role when they first create a character and never deviate from it?&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve railed against this for a while now.  I count flexibility a huge plus, to the extent that any game I design will be very flexible, and any game I pay to play will offer flexibility.</p>
<p>This is especially true in an MMO, where the game is overwhelmingly repetitious by design.  I want the ability to approach the game in different ways without alts.</p>
<p>&#8220;I think that if we’re ever going to really escape the tyranny of class specialisation, MMOs need to provide more non-fighting things to do.&#8221;</p>
<p>Aye, indeedy.  The &#8220;combat all the time&#8221; mantra is a huge part of the grind and ennui.  It&#8217;s fine for a while, but it&#8217;s terribly shallow when it comes to &#8220;virtual world&#8221; design.  Have you read Raph&#8217;s &#8220;The Evil We Pretend To&#8221; article?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also suspected that PUGs would go smoother with Dual Spec.  (A theme I expanded upon when rambling about giving *everyone* a tank/dps/healing triad of specs.)  Mechanics like this that make it *easier* for people to get together and play are far more palatable to me than those that *force* people to get together.  Soft sell vs. hard sell, as it were.</p>
<p>Of course, I&#8217;m biased, always going for the &#8220;jack of all trades&#8221; sorts of characters, even in a strict class design.  Sometimes that works, like WoW&#8217;s Druid, sometimes it doesn&#8217;t.  I simply don&#8217;t always want to do the same thing every time I log in.</p>
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		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/05/07/hows-dual-specs-working-out-for-you/#comment-918</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 15:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1322#comment-918</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s a good point on #1. But I&#039;m figuring you still want to be able to spread the loot around so a balanced dps group is still better than a stacked one. I have noticed raid guilds on AD looking for boomkins though.

In one case, amusingly, they are demanding boomkins with pre-Wrath raiding experience. There are only two of those on horde side and one is already in their guild! And the other applied and got turned down. So not entirely sure who they&#039;ll get.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a good point on #1. But I&#8217;m figuring you still want to be able to spread the loot around so a balanced dps group is still better than a stacked one. I have noticed raid guilds on AD looking for boomkins though.</p>
<p>In one case, amusingly, they are demanding boomkins with pre-Wrath raiding experience. There are only two of those on horde side and one is already in their guild! And the other applied and got turned down. So not entirely sure who they&#8217;ll get.</p>
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		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/05/07/hows-dual-specs-working-out-for-you/#comment-917</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 15:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1322#comment-917</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;It makes it easier to get into an instance group if you can spot-fill the required role of tank/dps/healer just as needed.&quot;


True, but it also makes it easier for more groups to form, which benefits everyone. Even as dps, if you can get a group formed by grabbing a hybrid who can switch to heals, it means you may not have to spend as long in channel &#039;LF healer&#039;.

And I would never laugh at the devil, much :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It makes it easier to get into an instance group if you can spot-fill the required role of tank/dps/healer just as needed.&#8221;</p>
<p>True, but it also makes it easier for more groups to form, which benefits everyone. Even as dps, if you can get a group formed by grabbing a hybrid who can switch to heals, it means you may not have to spend as long in channel &#8216;LF healer&#8217;.</p>
<p>And I would never laugh at the devil, much <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Stabs</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/05/07/hows-dual-specs-working-out-for-you/#comment-912</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stabs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 13:10:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1322#comment-912</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a raid officer two observations so far:

1) When recruiting it&#039;s probably more viable to recruit hybrids or at least not be hybrid-light. If we need one more ranged dps a boomkin/healer future proofs us better than a mage would.

2) When you have too many tank (we do for our 25s) it&#039;s a little frustrating if someone can&#039;t be versatile so has to always tank or be a passenger. We like to spread it around for fairness reasons. Also our tanks who can do two jobs are better geared than the guy who can only tank.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a raid officer two observations so far:</p>
<p>1) When recruiting it&#8217;s probably more viable to recruit hybrids or at least not be hybrid-light. If we need one more ranged dps a boomkin/healer future proofs us better than a mage would.</p>
<p>2) When you have too many tank (we do for our 25s) it&#8217;s a little frustrating if someone can&#8217;t be versatile so has to always tank or be a passenger. We like to spread it around for fairness reasons. Also our tanks who can do two jobs are better geared than the guy who can only tank.</p>
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		<title>By: Longasc</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/05/07/hows-dual-specs-working-out-for-you/#comment-910</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Longasc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 11:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1322#comment-910</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I played a Warlock and quit for different reasons already in December 2008.

But yes, it makes one jealous of the more flexible classes. That is the problem. If I am as DPS is a raid, sure, nobody is even thinking that your pure DPS class could switch to a healer, of course.

It makes it easier to get into an instance group if you can spot-fill the required role of tank/dps/healer just as needed.

This makes the idea of being a hybrid class in a dual spec world so much much more attractive than ever before.

I think you have seen the link to the armory statistics page on Tesh&#039;s blog that shows a rise of hybrid classes and a decline of specialists (specialists are always the pure DPS classes, so it is almost synonymous).


But to expand your question: I would probably pick the Death Knight class and no longer the Warlock. I probably would then still not do it, as everyone and his daughter has a DK.

I would not pick a Paladin either... my old main was a Paladin, and well... Retribution was not viable back in the days, tanking hardly accepted and healing people was not my thing. I always felt so responsible when they died! :)

Druid? I want to see the rear of my pretty witch, not a big bear butt.


So yeah... witch is a witch is a witch... I would still pick the Warlock class, despite its huge problems and core flaws inherent to the class design.


http://www.flarn.com/~warlock/tarot/fantastical/15.html

Do not laugh, I score in different tests always as the devil, and I do not do it intentionally. :)

I also prefer the Alliance. Always did. Those playing blood elves are just guys who want to look human and play the supposedly cool Horde side!

Like my friends Steve and Andre, the traitors deserted to the Horde once I quit! (Playing Paladin and Shaman - did you notice a trend, they picked hybrid classes. They were Warrior and Rogue before.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I played a Warlock and quit for different reasons already in December 2008.</p>
<p>But yes, it makes one jealous of the more flexible classes. That is the problem. If I am as DPS is a raid, sure, nobody is even thinking that your pure DPS class could switch to a healer, of course.</p>
<p>It makes it easier to get into an instance group if you can spot-fill the required role of tank/dps/healer just as needed.</p>
<p>This makes the idea of being a hybrid class in a dual spec world so much much more attractive than ever before.</p>
<p>I think you have seen the link to the armory statistics page on Tesh&#8217;s blog that shows a rise of hybrid classes and a decline of specialists (specialists are always the pure DPS classes, so it is almost synonymous).</p>
<p>But to expand your question: I would probably pick the Death Knight class and no longer the Warlock. I probably would then still not do it, as everyone and his daughter has a DK.</p>
<p>I would not pick a Paladin either&#8230; my old main was a Paladin, and well&#8230; Retribution was not viable back in the days, tanking hardly accepted and healing people was not my thing. I always felt so responsible when they died! <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Druid? I want to see the rear of my pretty witch, not a big bear butt.</p>
<p>So yeah&#8230; witch is a witch is a witch&#8230; I would still pick the Warlock class, despite its huge problems and core flaws inherent to the class design.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.flarn.com/~warlock/tarot/fantastical/15.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.flarn.com/~warlock/tarot/fantastical/15.html</a></p>
<p>Do not laugh, I score in different tests always as the devil, and I do not do it intentionally. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I also prefer the Alliance. Always did. Those playing blood elves are just guys who want to look human and play the supposedly cool Horde side!</p>
<p>Like my friends Steve and Andre, the traitors deserted to the Horde once I quit! (Playing Paladin and Shaman &#8211; did you notice a trend, they picked hybrid classes. They were Warrior and Rogue before.)</p>
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