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	<title>Comments on: Soloing, going casual, and the tragedy of the commons</title>
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	<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/soloing-going-casual-and-the-tragedy-of-the-commons/</link>
	<description>MMOs and game design</description>
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		<title>By: Bits and pieces; and thoughts from 3 years ago about the future of MMOs &#171; Welcome to Spinksville!</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/soloing-going-casual-and-the-tragedy-of-the-commons/#comment-19085</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bits and pieces; and thoughts from 3 years ago about the future of MMOs &#171; Welcome to Spinksville!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jun 2012 15:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1418#comment-19085</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] reminded me of some thoughts I posted a few years ago about what might happen to MMOs if the proportion of soloers continued to increase. It was contentious at the time and attracted more comments than anything I’d ever written. Now I [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] reminded me of some thoughts I posted a few years ago about what might happen to MMOs if the proportion of soloers continued to increase. It was contentious at the time and attracted more comments than anything I’d ever written. Now I [...]</p>
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		<title>By: A holiday, a holiday, the first one of the year! Best of 2009. &#171; Welcome to Spinksville!</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/soloing-going-casual-and-the-tragedy-of-the-commons/#comment-5202</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A holiday, a holiday, the first one of the year! Best of 2009. &#171; Welcome to Spinksville!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 09:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1418#comment-5202</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Soloing, going casual, and the tragedy of the commons (why soloers don’t contribute as much as they think) [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Soloing, going casual, and the tragedy of the commons (why soloers don’t contribute as much as they think) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Declaring my independence &#171; Stylish Corpse</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/soloing-going-casual-and-the-tragedy-of-the-commons/#comment-1889</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Declaring my independence &#171; Stylish Corpse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 13:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1418#comment-1889</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] very intense and interesting posts about grouping and soloing (Spinks has two I particularly liked: this and that) and I&#8217;m seeing an interesting but disturbing trend. &#8220;Solo is bad, group is [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] very intense and interesting posts about grouping and soloing (Spinks has two I particularly liked: this and that) and I&#8217;m seeing an interesting but disturbing trend. &#8220;Solo is bad, group is [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Copernicus</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/soloing-going-casual-and-the-tragedy-of-the-commons/#comment-1069</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Copernicus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 18:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1418#comment-1069</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A lot of the difference between someone who prefers to solo and someone who prefers to group up comes down to their motivations and rewards.

I&#039;m a solo&#039;er. I don&#039;t really like grouping, and will avoid it whenever possible. However, I am a raid leader for my guild. Why? Because I think that people in a position of authority should be competent in their position. I saw a complete lack of people able to disect an encounter well enough to lead a raid and make adjustments as needed. So when our second ten man group was forming up and heading into Naxx, I stepped up to lead it.

My motivation? The guild would lose members if someone that knew what they were doing didn&#039;t step up to lead the group, and while I don&#039;t really want the job, I&#039;d certainly do a better job that that guy over there.

My reward? The feeling of success as we down each boss. The pride when a chronic void zone victim finally moves without being told. Seeing my fledglings turn into competent raiders in their own right. The knowledge that most of these people now have the capability to step in and lead the raid, if I couldn&#039;t make it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of the difference between someone who prefers to solo and someone who prefers to group up comes down to their motivations and rewards.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a solo&#8217;er. I don&#8217;t really like grouping, and will avoid it whenever possible. However, I am a raid leader for my guild. Why? Because I think that people in a position of authority should be competent in their position. I saw a complete lack of people able to disect an encounter well enough to lead a raid and make adjustments as needed. So when our second ten man group was forming up and heading into Naxx, I stepped up to lead it.</p>
<p>My motivation? The guild would lose members if someone that knew what they were doing didn&#8217;t step up to lead the group, and while I don&#8217;t really want the job, I&#8217;d certainly do a better job that that guy over there.</p>
<p>My reward? The feeling of success as we down each boss. The pride when a chronic void zone victim finally moves without being told. Seeing my fledglings turn into competent raiders in their own right. The knowledge that most of these people now have the capability to step in and lead the raid, if I couldn&#8217;t make it.</p>
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		<title>By: A Guild by any other name&#8230; &#171; Fool&#8217;s Age</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/soloing-going-casual-and-the-tragedy-of-the-commons/#comment-1060</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A Guild by any other name&#8230; &#171; Fool&#8217;s Age]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 17:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1418#comment-1060</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] familiar with one type of guild, and assume that their type is representative of all guilds (e.g. spinks speaks of &#8220;guilds&#8221; by which she means &#8220;raiding guilds&#8221;, as if they wer...).  This leads to some communication breakdowns, where one party assumes things another party [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] familiar with one type of guild, and assume that their type is representative of all guilds (e.g. spinks speaks of &#8220;guilds&#8221; by which she means &#8220;raiding guilds&#8221;, as if they wer&#8230;).  This leads to some communication breakdowns, where one party assumes things another party [...]</p>
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		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/soloing-going-casual-and-the-tragedy-of-the-commons/#comment-1059</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 17:11:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1418#comment-1059</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s a reason I titled this &quot;tragedy of the commons&quot; and not &quot;don&#039;t let solo players in your guild&quot;, and it&#039;s to do with proportions. Most casual type guilds don&#039;t explicitly pick goals or say what they are about. Eventually, the guild defines itself through what most of the members want to do. With a large and wide ranging guild, there probably will be support for a wide range of interests, and that&#039;s a good thing. I think a variety of members and interests protects a guild (ie. if one activity or clique implodes, there are lots of alternatives).

But if the majority of members prefer one style of play, then expectations start to shift. Even with no max guild size, if the majority of members want to solo then it becomes a more solo centric guild. Not a problem until you realise that most of the core community building in guilds usually comes from a core who tend to play together. Communities change and shift over time, but I really think most people join a guild with the expectation that they may want to group with guildies at least some of the time. If that becomes more difficult or stops being a focus then you&#039;ll stop attracting that kind of player and the core community can&#039;t hold together. If people didn&#039;t want a core community then that&#039;s fine ofc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a reason I titled this &#8220;tragedy of the commons&#8221; and not &#8220;don&#8217;t let solo players in your guild&#8221;, and it&#8217;s to do with proportions. Most casual type guilds don&#8217;t explicitly pick goals or say what they are about. Eventually, the guild defines itself through what most of the members want to do. With a large and wide ranging guild, there probably will be support for a wide range of interests, and that&#8217;s a good thing. I think a variety of members and interests protects a guild (ie. if one activity or clique implodes, there are lots of alternatives).</p>
<p>But if the majority of members prefer one style of play, then expectations start to shift. Even with no max guild size, if the majority of members want to solo then it becomes a more solo centric guild. Not a problem until you realise that most of the core community building in guilds usually comes from a core who tend to play together. Communities change and shift over time, but I really think most people join a guild with the expectation that they may want to group with guildies at least some of the time. If that becomes more difficult or stops being a focus then you&#8217;ll stop attracting that kind of player and the core community can&#8217;t hold together. If people didn&#8217;t want a core community then that&#8217;s fine ofc.</p>
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		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/soloing-going-casual-and-the-tragedy-of-the-commons/#comment-1058</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 17:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1418#comment-1058</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not though. I&#039;m just making the assumption that most people join a guild because at some point they&#039;d like to group with others. Not all the time. Not 5 days a week raiding. Just ... &quot;Hm this game lets you do stuff with other people. I&#039;ll find a guild, maybe they&#039;ll do that sometime.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not though. I&#8217;m just making the assumption that most people join a guild because at some point they&#8217;d like to group with others. Not all the time. Not 5 days a week raiding. Just &#8230; &#8220;Hm this game lets you do stuff with other people. I&#8217;ll find a guild, maybe they&#8217;ll do that sometime.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Tesh</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/soloing-going-casual-and-the-tragedy-of-the-commons/#comment-1056</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tesh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 15:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1418#comment-1056</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Once again, you&#039;re just speaking about the population of a &quot;raiding&quot; or &quot;grouping&quot; guild.  Extending the argument to an MMO&#039;s population as a whole is a bogus argument.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again, you&#8217;re just speaking about the population of a &#8220;raiding&#8221; or &#8220;grouping&#8221; guild.  Extending the argument to an MMO&#8217;s population as a whole is a bogus argument.</p>
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		<title>By: unwize</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/soloing-going-casual-and-the-tragedy-of-the-commons/#comment-1055</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[unwize]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 12:53:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1418#comment-1055</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@cydmab

The distinction between high and low social members is a good one.

When I drafted up the rules for my now defunct WAR guild, I instinctively accommodated low social players, because depending on my mood, I often trend towards that end of the scale myself. Yep, I&#039;m obviously going to favour an ethos that suits my own preferences!

The idea was to enshrine self-determination as the most important principle in guild life. If you want to group, you have to make the effort to join one or set one up yourself. If you find that despite your efforts there just isn&#039;t enough interest in grouping activities, then ultimately, you should be looking for another guild.

My vision for the guild was simply to form a community of like-minded WAR players, with guild chat, voice chat and forums to facilitate that. I assumed that most people wanting to play WAR would not be averse to grouping, which turned out to be the case, but at no point did I want anyone to feel obliged to do so.

Perhaps a game like WAR needs a more pro-active approach to grouping from a guild&#039;s leadership, but the issue of whether my approach was successful is muddled by the fact that most of our members&#039; left the game because it simply wasn&#039;t good enough. We certainly attracted a lot of players in the early days, suggesting that there are plenty of people out there seeking a hands-off leadership approach that emphasises individual responsibility.

So, perhaps the key to all this is ensuring that prospective members are made explicitely aware of the kind of guild they are applying to. You can&#039;t complain about a glut of solo orientated members if the guild rules you signed up to explicitly accommodate that playstyle, and you can&#039;t complain about being pressured to group if you join a raiding guild.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@cydmab</p>
<p>The distinction between high and low social members is a good one.</p>
<p>When I drafted up the rules for my now defunct WAR guild, I instinctively accommodated low social players, because depending on my mood, I often trend towards that end of the scale myself. Yep, I&#8217;m obviously going to favour an ethos that suits my own preferences!</p>
<p>The idea was to enshrine self-determination as the most important principle in guild life. If you want to group, you have to make the effort to join one or set one up yourself. If you find that despite your efforts there just isn&#8217;t enough interest in grouping activities, then ultimately, you should be looking for another guild.</p>
<p>My vision for the guild was simply to form a community of like-minded WAR players, with guild chat, voice chat and forums to facilitate that. I assumed that most people wanting to play WAR would not be averse to grouping, which turned out to be the case, but at no point did I want anyone to feel obliged to do so.</p>
<p>Perhaps a game like WAR needs a more pro-active approach to grouping from a guild&#8217;s leadership, but the issue of whether my approach was successful is muddled by the fact that most of our members&#8217; left the game because it simply wasn&#8217;t good enough. We certainly attracted a lot of players in the early days, suggesting that there are plenty of people out there seeking a hands-off leadership approach that emphasises individual responsibility.</p>
<p>So, perhaps the key to all this is ensuring that prospective members are made explicitely aware of the kind of guild they are applying to. You can&#8217;t complain about a glut of solo orientated members if the guild rules you signed up to explicitly accommodate that playstyle, and you can&#8217;t complain about being pressured to group if you join a raiding guild.</p>
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		<title>By: Melf_Himself</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/soloing-going-casual-and-the-tragedy-of-the-commons/#comment-1051</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Melf_Himself]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 08:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=1418#comment-1051</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;every time you are online when someone is trying to organise a guild activity and you could have taken part but you decided not to bother, you are breaking a piece of someone’s heart&quot;

Give me a break.

So if there was 
1) a little checkbox when you log in that lets you appear offline to your guildies only, that would solve all the problems?
2) no maximum guild size

... would you still not want solo players in your guild? What would be the down-side?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;every time you are online when someone is trying to organise a guild activity and you could have taken part but you decided not to bother, you are breaking a piece of someone’s heart&#8221;</p>
<p>Give me a break.</p>
<p>So if there was<br />
1) a little checkbox when you log in that lets you appear offline to your guildies only, that would solve all the problems?<br />
2) no maximum guild size</p>
<p>&#8230; would you still not want solo players in your guild? What would be the down-side?</p>
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