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	<title>Comments on: Redefining MMOs: Flexible Character Classes and the End of Niche Protection</title>
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	<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/redefining-mmos-flexible-character-classes-and-the-end-of-niche-protection/</link>
	<description>MMOs and game design</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: A holiday, a holiday, the first one of the year! Best of 2009. &#171; Welcome to Spinksville!</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/redefining-mmos-flexible-character-classes-and-the-end-of-niche-protection/#comment-5222</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A holiday, a holiday, the first one of the year! Best of 2009. &#171; Welcome to Spinksville!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 09:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=2381#comment-5222</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Redefining Character Classes and the End of Niche Protection (Massively liked this one! Rar to them!) [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Redefining Character Classes and the End of Niche Protection (Massively liked this one! Rar to them!) [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/redefining-mmos-flexible-character-classes-and-the-end-of-niche-protection/#comment-3477</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 18:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=2381#comment-3477</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Its a good question. Are you more than your buff/s?

If an encounter can&#039;t be done without a stamina buff in the group, then do you need a priest or just a stamina buff on legs?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its a good question. Are you more than your buff/s?</p>
<p>If an encounter can&#8217;t be done without a stamina buff in the group, then do you need a priest or just a stamina buff on legs?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Elnia</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/redefining-mmos-flexible-character-classes-and-the-end-of-niche-protection/#comment-3476</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Elnia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 18:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=2381#comment-3476</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A good article Spinks. Here&#039;s my question for you.

What&#039;s the difference between &quot;niche protection&quot; and &quot;identity construction&quot;?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good article Spinks. Here&#8217;s my question for you.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s the difference between &#8220;niche protection&#8221; and &#8220;identity construction&#8221;?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Elnia</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/redefining-mmos-flexible-character-classes-and-the-end-of-niche-protection/#comment-3475</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Elnia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 18:08:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=2381#comment-3475</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, it is.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it is.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/redefining-mmos-flexible-character-classes-and-the-end-of-niche-protection/#comment-3473</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 08:03:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=2381#comment-3473</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ll look forwards to reading it. I think there&#039;s a lot to say and I&#039;d love to see your thoughts. 

One other thing is that pen and paper games tend to  be all about describing what you do and then rolling dice. They&#039;re differentiated by roleplaying fluff as much as anything else. Classes in computer games can be made to actually play differently from each other -- you&#039;re really acting out the role in a more direct way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll look forwards to reading it. I think there&#8217;s a lot to say and I&#8217;d love to see your thoughts. </p>
<p>One other thing is that pen and paper games tend to  be all about describing what you do and then rolling dice. They&#8217;re differentiated by roleplaying fluff as much as anything else. Classes in computer games can be made to actually play differently from each other &#8212; you&#8217;re really acting out the role in a more direct way.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Longasc</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/redefining-mmos-flexible-character-classes-and-the-end-of-niche-protection/#comment-3472</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Longasc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 06:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=2381#comment-3472</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s actually a good summary.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s actually a good summary.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Longasc</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/redefining-mmos-flexible-character-classes-and-the-end-of-niche-protection/#comment-3471</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Longasc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 06:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=2381#comment-3471</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You are quite right, the &quot;don&#039;t stand in glowy crap&quot; or fire thingie has become quite common in WoW raids.

I personally believe dual classing in WoW to be a sign that the Anti-Christ is already on earth.

Yes, I might be the only dual-classing hater left on this planet, but let me be the prophet of doom: The rise of the hybrid in WoW is very apparent in armory scans. I say this was totally unnecessary, as tank classes like warriors in prot spec were given already increased soloability.

I always wondered that people lamented that their Paladins could not compete with a Warlock in soloability, i.e. downing mobs as fast. They were more durable, next to impossible to kill, and could kill fast later on. Nowadays they kill faster and are even harder to kill. Note, I played both Paladin and Warlock and if I ever had a gripe with the Paladin, it was not that I felt I had to kill stuff faster.

So yeah, either go the whole way towards making everyone equal and give players a chance to express themselves through personal player skill (hard to do in most MMOs, actually) or if your game has classes, make sure that classes stay unique and have their special strengths and weaknesses.

Moonkin Druids were often not taken by players because of &quot;not enough DPS&quot; in Moonkin form. Then they gave the buggers superb DPS AND a elemental resistances debuff similar to my Warlocks Curse of Elements.

The idea was to make classes more interchangeable. But well, given the extremely lowly &quot;mass AoE&quot; way all WOTLK 5-man-instances played (YAWN) I really had my gripes with this and quit after one month of WOTLK. And having killed the dudettes in Naxx already before some people even had entered for the first time - ok, just needed this for my ego! ;)


So yeah, either do away with classes or make them meaningful. What Greg &quot;Ghostcrawler&quot; Street did in WOTLK seems totally wrong to me. I like this guy and his qualities as a community manager and the way he communicates with players, but regarding class design and the imba at release Death Knights, I think he wants to impose a classless system upon a world build upon the very same classes he almost tries to abolish or even worse, to reduce them to Tank, DPS, Healer. They also created special forums for the simplified trinity, brr...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are quite right, the &#8220;don&#8217;t stand in glowy crap&#8221; or fire thingie has become quite common in WoW raids.</p>
<p>I personally believe dual classing in WoW to be a sign that the Anti-Christ is already on earth.</p>
<p>Yes, I might be the only dual-classing hater left on this planet, but let me be the prophet of doom: The rise of the hybrid in WoW is very apparent in armory scans. I say this was totally unnecessary, as tank classes like warriors in prot spec were given already increased soloability.</p>
<p>I always wondered that people lamented that their Paladins could not compete with a Warlock in soloability, i.e. downing mobs as fast. They were more durable, next to impossible to kill, and could kill fast later on. Nowadays they kill faster and are even harder to kill. Note, I played both Paladin and Warlock and if I ever had a gripe with the Paladin, it was not that I felt I had to kill stuff faster.</p>
<p>So yeah, either go the whole way towards making everyone equal and give players a chance to express themselves through personal player skill (hard to do in most MMOs, actually) or if your game has classes, make sure that classes stay unique and have their special strengths and weaknesses.</p>
<p>Moonkin Druids were often not taken by players because of &#8220;not enough DPS&#8221; in Moonkin form. Then they gave the buggers superb DPS AND a elemental resistances debuff similar to my Warlocks Curse of Elements.</p>
<p>The idea was to make classes more interchangeable. But well, given the extremely lowly &#8220;mass AoE&#8221; way all WOTLK 5-man-instances played (YAWN) I really had my gripes with this and quit after one month of WOTLK. And having killed the dudettes in Naxx already before some people even had entered for the first time &#8211; ok, just needed this for my ego! <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>So yeah, either do away with classes or make them meaningful. What Greg &#8220;Ghostcrawler&#8221; Street did in WOTLK seems totally wrong to me. I like this guy and his qualities as a community manager and the way he communicates with players, but regarding class design and the imba at release Death Knights, I think he wants to impose a classless system upon a world build upon the very same classes he almost tries to abolish or even worse, to reduce them to Tank, DPS, Healer. They also created special forums for the simplified trinity, brr&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/redefining-mmos-flexible-character-classes-and-the-end-of-niche-protection/#comment-3470</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 05:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=2381#comment-3470</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s very true. Defining roles in MMOs has been very dependent on game mechanics so far (actually one thing I forgot to mention is that I think devs are trying to make different classes represent different playing styles now with completely different mechanics), but it doesn&#039;t have to be that way.

In games like Vampire, the different clans did have different abilities but their niches were more from a storytelling point of view. The idea of putting together a &#039;balanced group&#039; didn&#039;t really work. At most you&#039;d get some psychic type abilities and some combat type.

I do think though that if every player can instantly switch to any class, a group of players has less reason to socialise outside that group unless there&#039;s anything more in the game to encourage socialising. (ie. much easier for it to become a &#039;less-massive MO&#039;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s very true. Defining roles in MMOs has been very dependent on game mechanics so far (actually one thing I forgot to mention is that I think devs are trying to make different classes represent different playing styles now with completely different mechanics), but it doesn&#8217;t have to be that way.</p>
<p>In games like Vampire, the different clans did have different abilities but their niches were more from a storytelling point of view. The idea of putting together a &#8216;balanced group&#8217; didn&#8217;t really work. At most you&#8217;d get some psychic type abilities and some combat type.</p>
<p>I do think though that if every player can instantly switch to any class, a group of players has less reason to socialise outside that group unless there&#8217;s anything more in the game to encourage socialising. (ie. much easier for it to become a &#8216;less-massive MO&#8217;)</p>
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		<title>By: Brian 'Psychochild' Green</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/redefining-mmos-flexible-character-classes-and-the-end-of-niche-protection/#comment-3468</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian 'Psychochild' Green]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 22:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=2381#comment-3468</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gah, I&#039;m writing an article for a major website covering the topic of classes and class balance.  I&#039;m also looking at D&amp;D classes as an example where a fighter wasn&#039;t just someone to absorb damage while the cleric healed and the rogue backstabbed repeatedly.

I guess I&#039;m not a unique snowflake. :(  Thanks Spinks!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gah, I&#8217;m writing an article for a major website covering the topic of classes and class balance.  I&#8217;m also looking at D&amp;D classes as an example where a fighter wasn&#8217;t just someone to absorb damage while the cleric healed and the rogue backstabbed repeatedly.</p>
<p>I guess I&#8217;m not a unique snowflake. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' />   Thanks Spinks!</p>
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		<title>By: sente</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/redefining-mmos-flexible-character-classes-and-the-end-of-niche-protection/#comment-3465</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sente]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 16:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=2381#comment-3465</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To have less defined roles does not necessarily hurt the social aspect. It may reduce the socialising factor from finding the right role for your team, but that it just one of many factors that could contribute to support the social activities.

It is interesting to note that while character development perhaps has become more open-ended and less &quot;on rails&quot;, the mission/quest aspect of MMOs has rather gone the other way in many cases.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To have less defined roles does not necessarily hurt the social aspect. It may reduce the socialising factor from finding the right role for your team, but that it just one of many factors that could contribute to support the social activities.</p>
<p>It is interesting to note that while character development perhaps has become more open-ended and less &#8220;on rails&#8221;, the mission/quest aspect of MMOs has rather gone the other way in many cases.</p>
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