I mentioned Vanguard because in their crafting system you had full levels. Crafting got XP, you got new crafting powers, crafting gear sets, crafting quests, faction etc.

Someone posted something about it needing to be as deep as adventuring and more than “skill assignment.” It was an entire game built around just crafting. Of course, the rest of the game had so many problems it was doomed to fail. But the crafting system they did right.

Ultima Online was similar in this regard. You have 700.0 Skillpoints, max 100.0 in a skill, to distribute.

So many players had a crafter alt – a guy who was a smith, tinker, master arms lore and several other things. The issue was that most players focused their mains on lots of things, but not gathering stuff for sure.

Mining and harvesting with a crafter was, before the pve/pvp split, dangerous as hell. Carrying a pack horse with you in a pvp zone is like a sign reading “KILL ME”. So you either risked to do it on your or you had your guild mate(s) accompany you for protection.

It was also a nice way to set up a trap for wannabe PKs. A lot of buddies hiding near you… hehe.

Crafting needs to be as deep as adventuring.

In no game does it come close, so we’re stuck with crafting that is either intensely grindy and not fun, or trivially easy and not fun.

There was a thrill in knowing that our investment in him meant a guildhall for us. And there was a bond formed between him and the guild for helping him accomplish great things.

The problem as I see it with crafting is it either needs to be all or nothing to have meaning. Artificial limits on crafting levels is moot when you can just make an alt. Throw it out there like EQ1 and just let everyone master everything, or really make it be the sole purpose of a character but have it depend on others.

Also, Fallen Earth is time based crafting. Supply is artificially limited in that I can’t craft any faster by action. So everyone will simply be a side crafter and will just remember to logout at a warehouse/craft station. Effectively that limits the rate of crafting but not the ability. Alt armies will arise just to keep the crafting clocks spinning.

I too like the immersion factor and one solution to the “pain” problem is to allow players to set up shop like NPC vendors and sell when you are not on-line.

This is why I don’t like mini game professions a la Free Realms. For me it breaks the realism, the immersion. If I want to play those games I go to Pogo.com, not WoW.

I wonder what it’d be like if characters had inbuilt talents towards different skills when created which were randomly determined so you might find you had this great talent for one tradeskill rather than another. I know people would complain, but if the skills were reasonably balanced it might be kind of fun.

But restricting it to people who can stomach the grind just favours a) achievers who don’t mind grinding and b) people with a lot of time. It’s not that it is necessarily a BAD way to simulate someone putting a lot of time and effort into mastering a skill though – it might really be quite a decent way to simulate that.

We still use “Guild Crafters” in that we do have a designated person the guild will chip in to buy new, rare patterns for et cetera.
But with so many people with so many alts, unless you are looking for top shelf stuff, it is not a big deal if the Jewelcrafting Steward is AFK, someone else can fill in.

Skarlarth and Company
Medivh

In WoW, I picked Leatherworking and was perpetually disappointed. I should have dropped early, but I always figured that after I did the mythical patch to make Leatherworking not suck would arrive. My friends were enchanters, so I got enchantments easily enough.

In EQ2, I was a scribe to make my own scrolls as a Necromancer. It was handy, but not sure the time invested was worth it in the end. The fact you might be giving your rare item to an idiot that can’t do crafting properly was always a worry, though.

In LotRO, I went insane. I have a Supreme Master who is Kindred to the proper crafting guild (completely maxxed out) in every profession. Unfortunately, most of my characters are only 20-30th level, so they can’t make extreme best stuff that requires high-level (Lothlorien) faction. They also can’t use high end tools and scholar scrolls, so their chance to make crit items is sub-par comparatively. But, I can make high end crafted gear for all my characters when I play them. I offer my crafters services to the kinship (guild) my main is in, though. Of course, except for a few recipes high end crafting is not that great since the best items (legendary items and armor with radiance) can’t be made often if at all.

From a design point of view, I’m divided about which is the better scenario. My initial thought is that crafting should be exclusive in some way (not just to people who can stand a monster grind) to allow people to invest a lot into that side of the game without having any drooling moron craft stuff and flood the market. But, is the most fun for the widest group possible? Not sure….

I used to spend a lot of time in early WoTLK on mining circuits. Enjoyed it a lot. These days having gone goblin on the Ah I much prefer to just buy my mats and gather so rarely I’ve been considering dropping all my gathering profesions. I’m guessing those people love to gather are effectively supporting my crafting habit (if your names Tucano keep on selling herbs at 9g per stack and I’ll give you a free cake)