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	<title>Comments on: Icecrown Citadel: Is tanking getting dull?</title>
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	<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/01/28/icecrown-citadel-is-tanking-getting-dull/</link>
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		<title>By: Usiel</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/01/28/icecrown-citadel-is-tanking-getting-dull/#comment-5888</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Usiel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=3154#comment-5888</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A friend once caught the right sentence: &quot;Tanks are divas&quot;.

I still remember the time, that loot was primarily given to the main tank, as well as &quot;selling Items&quot; to pay for his repairs.
This did not happen out of courtesy but rather out of the fact that your tanks gear defined your progress. 
Of course you could not advance further if your Raid lacked DPS or Healing, but this lack did not become as obvious,
as seeing your tank dying after the first attacks.

Another point was, that your tanks abilities, determined your DPS by large margins. Althoug we had taunts, losing Aggro was usually a desaster.
Remember the typical &quot;Hunter Aggro&quot; Wipe. A poor hunter drawed the attention of the fierce Dragon towards him. Which in those days ment, 130% of the tanks Aggro. So our unfortunate hunter became the &quot;tank&quot;. Which means, everybody in his surrounding was allowed to have 100% Aggro. Usually the hunter feigned death at this point, passing the &quot;tank role&quot; to another ranged class next to him, which lost its 130% Aggro Ranged privilege thanks to the hunter.

This usually ended in Bosses slaughtering the Ranged Classes and especially healers.

I started tanking in Classic, which might be confusing out of the fact that I play a Paladin, who did not have a taunt at that time. As you might imagine, times where pretty rough for me, on the other hand I was stubborn enough to refuse taking another role. At the end, I found my niche in fast, Aggro build up and AE intensive Fights. 

Later in BC Tanks main concern was surviving. If you timed your Survival abilities wrong the fight was over. Remember how crucial it was to avoid getting stunned, or how invaluable  your shield was to avoid crushing blows. At that time, Aggro-Meter made the Aggro mechanism trivial, but it was still a challenge to find a balance between Aggro generating abilities and survival abilities.

One short story is very characterisiq in my eyes for the situation right now.

We had severe issues with our Internet Connection, which very often threw me out of the game. The ones were your screen freezes for a Minute. In two cases we were even able to win the fight, just because my auto attacks, and the hunter and rogues routine were enough to keep me on top. 
Another Time, I was able to tank Lady Deathwisper with 5 Stacks, through Phase 2 after my fellow Tank died.
Both situations were not depending on my actual abilities.

All in all, I have not found one challenging fight so far in Wrath of the Lich King. The only challenge I have at the moment is keeping my fellow tank alive in his tank phase.

One must value the steps of Blizzard taken, to encourage more players to tank. Unfortunately the measures taken, went into the wrong direction.
Explaining this, would bring us away from the topic. As always, things are connected in a such complex way, that you can not point on a single problem, without considering the rest.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A friend once caught the right sentence: &#8220;Tanks are divas&#8221;.</p>
<p>I still remember the time, that loot was primarily given to the main tank, as well as &#8220;selling Items&#8221; to pay for his repairs.<br />
This did not happen out of courtesy but rather out of the fact that your tanks gear defined your progress.<br />
Of course you could not advance further if your Raid lacked DPS or Healing, but this lack did not become as obvious,<br />
as seeing your tank dying after the first attacks.</p>
<p>Another point was, that your tanks abilities, determined your DPS by large margins. Althoug we had taunts, losing Aggro was usually a desaster.<br />
Remember the typical &#8220;Hunter Aggro&#8221; Wipe. A poor hunter drawed the attention of the fierce Dragon towards him. Which in those days ment, 130% of the tanks Aggro. So our unfortunate hunter became the &#8220;tank&#8221;. Which means, everybody in his surrounding was allowed to have 100% Aggro. Usually the hunter feigned death at this point, passing the &#8220;tank role&#8221; to another ranged class next to him, which lost its 130% Aggro Ranged privilege thanks to the hunter.</p>
<p>This usually ended in Bosses slaughtering the Ranged Classes and especially healers.</p>
<p>I started tanking in Classic, which might be confusing out of the fact that I play a Paladin, who did not have a taunt at that time. As you might imagine, times where pretty rough for me, on the other hand I was stubborn enough to refuse taking another role. At the end, I found my niche in fast, Aggro build up and AE intensive Fights. </p>
<p>Later in BC Tanks main concern was surviving. If you timed your Survival abilities wrong the fight was over. Remember how crucial it was to avoid getting stunned, or how invaluable  your shield was to avoid crushing blows. At that time, Aggro-Meter made the Aggro mechanism trivial, but it was still a challenge to find a balance between Aggro generating abilities and survival abilities.</p>
<p>One short story is very characterisiq in my eyes for the situation right now.</p>
<p>We had severe issues with our Internet Connection, which very often threw me out of the game. The ones were your screen freezes for a Minute. In two cases we were even able to win the fight, just because my auto attacks, and the hunter and rogues routine were enough to keep me on top.<br />
Another Time, I was able to tank Lady Deathwisper with 5 Stacks, through Phase 2 after my fellow Tank died.<br />
Both situations were not depending on my actual abilities.</p>
<p>All in all, I have not found one challenging fight so far in Wrath of the Lich King. The only challenge I have at the moment is keeping my fellow tank alive in his tank phase.</p>
<p>One must value the steps of Blizzard taken, to encourage more players to tank. Unfortunately the measures taken, went into the wrong direction.<br />
Explaining this, would bring us away from the topic. As always, things are connected in a such complex way, that you can not point on a single problem, without considering the rest.</p>
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		<title>By: Elelereth</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/01/28/icecrown-citadel-is-tanking-getting-dull/#comment-5744</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Elelereth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 20:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=3154#comment-5744</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Having bosses Tauntable by default is just a pain in the backside, by just about any metric. I doubt I need to remind people of the likes of Grobbulus, Sartharion, ignis etc - add spawns, taunt the boss instead, woops, I just got the entire raid Breathed on because Sarth reared up as I was clicking to target.

However, I question, as you did, the original argument. There&#039;s only so many ways in which you can give 3 tanks meanginful jobs to do in a boss fight. When you go to the effort of honing tanking gear and skills, the last thing you want to do is spend half the time as sub-par DPS because you have low priority on non-tanking drops.

While we may have seen rather a lot of variations on the &quot;Debuff #3 landed, Taunt please&quot;, theme, I&#039;m not sure that&#039;s any less interesting than the Golemagg model, where there were a couple of invulnerable mobs that would never be DPSed to keep tanks busy. It would be great to have some tremendously complex boss and adds fight where the three tanks had to keep 3 mobs interweaving in a celtic cross and switching targets every 15s - but I just shudder at the thought of repeating a boss like that often.

Definitely happy here with the trend that ICC has more bosses that involve all the tanks. Although if there&#039;s another boss that makes me stop using half of my attacks every time it&#039;s my turn to tank, I&#039;ll be less happy!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having bosses Tauntable by default is just a pain in the backside, by just about any metric. I doubt I need to remind people of the likes of Grobbulus, Sartharion, ignis etc &#8211; add spawns, taunt the boss instead, woops, I just got the entire raid Breathed on because Sarth reared up as I was clicking to target.</p>
<p>However, I question, as you did, the original argument. There&#8217;s only so many ways in which you can give 3 tanks meanginful jobs to do in a boss fight. When you go to the effort of honing tanking gear and skills, the last thing you want to do is spend half the time as sub-par DPS because you have low priority on non-tanking drops.</p>
<p>While we may have seen rather a lot of variations on the &#8220;Debuff #3 landed, Taunt please&#8221;, theme, I&#8217;m not sure that&#8217;s any less interesting than the Golemagg model, where there were a couple of invulnerable mobs that would never be DPSed to keep tanks busy. It would be great to have some tremendously complex boss and adds fight where the three tanks had to keep 3 mobs interweaving in a celtic cross and switching targets every 15s &#8211; but I just shudder at the thought of repeating a boss like that often.</p>
<p>Definitely happy here with the trend that ICC has more bosses that involve all the tanks. Although if there&#8217;s another boss that makes me stop using half of my attacks every time it&#8217;s my turn to tank, I&#8217;ll be less happy!</p>
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		<title>By: Shintar</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/01/28/icecrown-citadel-is-tanking-getting-dull/#comment-5732</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shintar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=3154#comment-5732</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I pretty much agree with your assessment 100%. The constant taunting back and forth is getting a bit old, but otherwise I see no problem with tanking in ICC so far. They clearly went for an approach where different roles get to shine on different fights, and that&#039;s quite alright with me. Saurfang is boring to tank, but exciting to heal. Lady Deathwhisper is boring to heal, but interesting to tank or dps, and so on. Makes for a nice rhythm of excitement and relaxation as you make your way through the wings.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I pretty much agree with your assessment 100%. The constant taunting back and forth is getting a bit old, but otherwise I see no problem with tanking in ICC so far. They clearly went for an approach where different roles get to shine on different fights, and that&#8217;s quite alright with me. Saurfang is boring to tank, but exciting to heal. Lady Deathwhisper is boring to heal, but interesting to tank or dps, and so on. Makes for a nice rhythm of excitement and relaxation as you make your way through the wings.</p>
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		<title>By: Dread</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/01/28/icecrown-citadel-is-tanking-getting-dull/#comment-5730</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dread]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 13:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=3154#comment-5730</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I will concede it&#039;s annoying that all the bosses are tauntable so far. I kind of liked showing that I indeed could toss out boatloads of threat and take aggro back. Makes it a little more trivial, I&#039;ll give you that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will concede it&#8217;s annoying that all the bosses are tauntable so far. I kind of liked showing that I indeed could toss out boatloads of threat and take aggro back. Makes it a little more trivial, I&#8217;ll give you that.</p>
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		<title>By: Dread</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/01/28/icecrown-citadel-is-tanking-getting-dull/#comment-5729</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dread]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 13:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=3154#comment-5729</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not saying your tank should always be the raid leader, but tanking does come with some degree of leadership, no? Even if I&#039;m not &quot;leading&quot; per se, I&#039;m proactive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not saying your tank should always be the raid leader, but tanking does come with some degree of leadership, no? Even if I&#8217;m not &#8220;leading&#8221; per se, I&#8217;m proactive.</p>
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		<title>By: Sudiin</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/01/28/icecrown-citadel-is-tanking-getting-dull/#comment-5726</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sudiin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 09:12:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=3154#comment-5726</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I reckon said tank&#039;s disgruntledness (?) may also originate from simple jealousy?
After all, he mentions DPS 3 times in one sentece and we&#039;re already far from those times where, as lonomonkey put it, you&#039;re just one of the faceless DPS if not tanking or healing. I dare DPS have at least as much work cut out for them as us tanks these days. Our guild currently working on beating the 5min enrage timer on Festergut25 is painfully aware of this. Each and every person who is healing/tanking/DD-ing counts. 
Honestly I like the encounter designs in ICC and it seems the majority of tanks feel similarly, I feel that on most fights both MT/OT have serious responsibilities. This guy seems to be forgetting the main point of the game is to *play for fun* xD]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I reckon said tank&#8217;s disgruntledness (?) may also originate from simple jealousy?<br />
After all, he mentions DPS 3 times in one sentece and we&#8217;re already far from those times where, as lonomonkey put it, you&#8217;re just one of the faceless DPS if not tanking or healing. I dare DPS have at least as much work cut out for them as us tanks these days. Our guild currently working on beating the 5min enrage timer on Festergut25 is painfully aware of this. Each and every person who is healing/tanking/DD-ing counts.<br />
Honestly I like the encounter designs in ICC and it seems the majority of tanks feel similarly, I feel that on most fights both MT/OT have serious responsibilities. This guy seems to be forgetting the main point of the game is to *play for fun* xD</p>
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		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/01/28/icecrown-citadel-is-tanking-getting-dull/#comment-5725</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=3154#comment-5725</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[True, I think having almost all bosses be tauntable and taking threat out of the equation has cut down on available tactics. It makes fights a lot more manageable if something goes wrong, but it&#039;s an aspect of play that&#039;s pretty much gone. I guess it does mean that balancing tank threat hasn&#039;t been much of an issue though.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True, I think having almost all bosses be tauntable and taking threat out of the equation has cut down on available tactics. It makes fights a lot more manageable if something goes wrong, but it&#8217;s an aspect of play that&#8217;s pretty much gone. I guess it does mean that balancing tank threat hasn&#8217;t been much of an issue though.</p>
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		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/01/28/icecrown-citadel-is-tanking-getting-dull/#comment-5724</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=3154#comment-5724</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not all tanks are raid leaders, though. I&#039;m not sure how thrilled my RLs would be if I started shouting instructions out, it can be chaotic enough without that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not all tanks are raid leaders, though. I&#8217;m not sure how thrilled my RLs would be if I started shouting instructions out, it can be chaotic enough without that.</p>
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		<title>By: Rohan</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/01/28/icecrown-citadel-is-tanking-getting-dull/#comment-5723</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rohan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=3154#comment-5723</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the big thing is that we haven&#039;t really seen a &quot;new&quot; boss mechanic aimed at tanks in a while. The last new mechanic was saberlash, introduced in Zul&#039;Aman, I believe.

Also, we haven&#039;t seen a fight which really involved manipulating threat this expansion. For example, a threat knockback fight like Broodlord Lashlayer in Blackwing Lair]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the big thing is that we haven&#8217;t really seen a &#8220;new&#8221; boss mechanic aimed at tanks in a while. The last new mechanic was saberlash, introduced in Zul&#8217;Aman, I believe.</p>
<p>Also, we haven&#8217;t seen a fight which really involved manipulating threat this expansion. For example, a threat knockback fight like Broodlord Lashlayer in Blackwing Lair</p>
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		<title>By: Kobeathris</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/01/28/icecrown-citadel-is-tanking-getting-dull/#comment-5720</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kobeathris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 19:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=3154#comment-5720</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s kind of funny that you mention glory, cause I often like to think of tanks being the teamsters union of the wow world.

&quot;OK boys, you see that dragon over there? I need you to move it to the other side of the room and spin it around a bit, ya got that?&quot;
&quot;Sure thing boss, you want it next to that rock there or by the lava?&quot;
&quot;By the lava, oh, and if it breathes at you, just hop in for a bit&quot;
&quot;We approved for overtime for this?&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s kind of funny that you mention glory, cause I often like to think of tanks being the teamsters union of the wow world.</p>
<p>&#8220;OK boys, you see that dragon over there? I need you to move it to the other side of the room and spin it around a bit, ya got that?&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Sure thing boss, you want it next to that rock there or by the lava?&#8221;<br />
&#8220;By the lava, oh, and if it breathes at you, just hop in for a bit&#8221;<br />
&#8220;We approved for overtime for this?&#8221;</p>
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