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	<title>Comments on: Time to bring back the 40 man raids? Or what makes a good public raid anyway?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/time-to-bring-back-the-40-man-raids-or-what-makes-a-good-public-raid-anyway/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/time-to-bring-back-the-40-man-raids-or-what-makes-a-good-public-raid-anyway/</link>
	<description>MMOs and game design</description>
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		<title>By: Game by Night &#187; On PuGs and Progression in WoW</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/time-to-bring-back-the-40-man-raids-or-what-makes-a-good-public-raid-anyway/#comment-7451</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Game by Night &#187; On PuGs and Progression in WoW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Apr 2010 05:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=3335#comment-7451</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] get the item he wants. So he drops. Player Y does get the item he wants. So he drops. Spinks really lays it all out nicely in an article she wrote a while back. These problems still persist and act as a barrier to [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] get the item he wants. So he drops. Player Y does get the item he wants. So he drops. Spinks really lays it all out nicely in an article she wrote a while back. These problems still persist and act as a barrier to [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/time-to-bring-back-the-40-man-raids-or-what-makes-a-good-public-raid-anyway/#comment-7204</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 04:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=3335#comment-7204</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[good lord...90% of the bosses 90% of people see are remarkably easy to kill so if theyre too hard for you ... go get keyboard cat to play for you or something...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>good lord&#8230;90% of the bosses 90% of people see are remarkably easy to kill so if theyre too hard for you &#8230; go get keyboard cat to play for you or something&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: 5 Challenges for Cataclysm &#171; Welcome to Spinksville!</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/time-to-bring-back-the-40-man-raids-or-what-makes-a-good-public-raid-anyway/#comment-6742</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[5 Challenges for Cataclysm &#171; Welcome to Spinksville!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 07:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=3335#comment-6742</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] People who can’t raid or don’t want to raid. Wrath opened up WoW raiding to more people than ever before. Some will be hooked and raring to go on Cataclysm raids. But what about the people who decided that actually it isn’t for them? It may be that some form of cross-server LFR tool will make raids a fun, casual friendly option. But as I’ve said before, I don’t think a regular tuned 10/25 man raid would work for a cross server PUG. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] People who can’t raid or don’t want to raid. Wrath opened up WoW raiding to more people than ever before. Some will be hooked and raring to go on Cataclysm raids. But what about the people who decided that actually it isn’t for them? It may be that some form of cross-server LFR tool will make raids a fun, casual friendly option. But as I’ve said before, I don’t think a regular tuned 10/25 man raid would work for a cross server PUG. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: I believe there is something out there watching us &#171; new traditionalists</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/time-to-bring-back-the-40-man-raids-or-what-makes-a-good-public-raid-anyway/#comment-6404</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[I believe there is something out there watching us &#171; new traditionalists]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 01:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=3335#comment-6404</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] a similar topic, Spinks thinks it might be time to bring back 40 man raiding &#8211; otherwise cross-server raid PUGs are doomed. Spinks also chimes into Cider&#8217;s [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a similar topic, Spinks thinks it might be time to bring back 40 man raiding &#8211; otherwise cross-server raid PUGs are doomed. Spinks also chimes into Cider&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Copra</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/time-to-bring-back-the-40-man-raids-or-what-makes-a-good-public-raid-anyway/#comment-6333</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Copra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=3335#comment-6333</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great post. For some reason in Allods on both sides there are these very low level open raid bosses, who are tied to pretty central quest chains and quests. Being quest objectives, a nice amount of people are directed to these open raids and the actual raids form very fast and fluidly. No need to call for one in general, either.

I agree with you completely that there should be something like this and combining this concept with the one you discuss in the more recent post (social ice-breakers) should be a hit in itself.

C out]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post. For some reason in Allods on both sides there are these very low level open raid bosses, who are tied to pretty central quest chains and quests. Being quest objectives, a nice amount of people are directed to these open raids and the actual raids form very fast and fluidly. No need to call for one in general, either.</p>
<p>I agree with you completely that there should be something like this and combining this concept with the one you discuss in the more recent post (social ice-breakers) should be a hit in itself.</p>
<p>C out</p>
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		<title>By: Tufva</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/time-to-bring-back-the-40-man-raids-or-what-makes-a-good-public-raid-anyway/#comment-6326</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tufva]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=3335#comment-6326</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great points there!!

It would be great fun to have big, epic raids where not everyone have to be absolutely perfect every second. Like it! :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great points there!!</p>
<p>It would be great fun to have big, epic raids where not everyone have to be absolutely perfect every second. Like it! <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Bristal</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/time-to-bring-back-the-40-man-raids-or-what-makes-a-good-public-raid-anyway/#comment-6325</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bristal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:23:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=3335#comment-6325</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And no, Alterac Valley is not that.  There is often very little interaction between factions and the boss fight, and the boss fight is not epic in any way.  AV starts with PvP (or the avoidance of it) and ends with a very dull PvE.

I want gates to open and the legions flood out on either side to battle each other and take down a boss general.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And no, Alterac Valley is not that.  There is often very little interaction between factions and the boss fight, and the boss fight is not epic in any way.  AV starts with PvP (or the avoidance of it) and ends with a very dull PvE.</p>
<p>I want gates to open and the legions flood out on either side to battle each other and take down a boss general.</p>
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		<title>By: Bristal</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/time-to-bring-back-the-40-man-raids-or-what-makes-a-good-public-raid-anyway/#comment-6324</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bristal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=3335#comment-6324</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great post and TOTALLY agree.  I love Wintergrasp for the same reasons.  It&#039;s chaotic, rarely does anyone scream at you and can be a blast (for a limited number of times a week).  You can even be totally solo and sneak around doing whatever, or RP.

Why couldn&#039;t you zone in to a massive PvE raid just like that?  It should still be hard, but failure would mean that it takes longer, or the rewards would be slightly less, etc.

An epic, non-linear raid instance would also feel somewhat different every time, and be less grindy with repetition.

Hell, combine some of the aspects of Wintergrasp and add some limited PvP to the mix.  Maybe the final fight could be which faction could burn down the other faction&#039;s boss fastest.  I&#039;ve always wanted to defend a big boss.  It could spawn a whole new area of strategy; how to disrupt a boss fight, or how protect a core group during a boss fight.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post and TOTALLY agree.  I love Wintergrasp for the same reasons.  It&#8217;s chaotic, rarely does anyone scream at you and can be a blast (for a limited number of times a week).  You can even be totally solo and sneak around doing whatever, or RP.</p>
<p>Why couldn&#8217;t you zone in to a massive PvE raid just like that?  It should still be hard, but failure would mean that it takes longer, or the rewards would be slightly less, etc.</p>
<p>An epic, non-linear raid instance would also feel somewhat different every time, and be less grindy with repetition.</p>
<p>Hell, combine some of the aspects of Wintergrasp and add some limited PvP to the mix.  Maybe the final fight could be which faction could burn down the other faction&#8217;s boss fastest.  I&#8217;ve always wanted to defend a big boss.  It could spawn a whole new area of strategy; how to disrupt a boss fight, or how protect a core group during a boss fight.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kiryn</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/time-to-bring-back-the-40-man-raids-or-what-makes-a-good-public-raid-anyway/#comment-6323</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kiryn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=3335#comment-6323</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is something I&#039;ve been pondering for a while now, since I started playing STO. My character is still only LC2 or so, but I&#039;m having great fun, and the conclusion I&#039;m coming to is that it&#039;s because of how EASY the game is.

I&#039;m going through my solo quests, and no matter what I do, I keep my power at 100% on Weapons and 25% on Shields, because the enemies don&#039;t hit me hard enough to do anything. I just fly around, gleefully hitting them with photon torpedoes and watching them explode and moving on to the next mob. No downtime, ever.

I went into a ground-based fleet mission over the weekend, there were dozens and dozens of people there, I didn&#039;t actually join the group and I tend to keep zone chat turned off anyway, so it was utterly silent but for the people /saying &quot;thx&quot; when they were rezzed, just an enormous group of players swarming from one Klingon to the next, such that even the big guys with shields went down in a matter of seconds. It was constantly run forward, target, shoot, run forward some more.

I was in that mission for something like 30-45 minutes, and I had a great deal of fun the whole time, though it left me rather exhausted. I can only think back to when I used to raid in WoW, when it was all about bosses that could one-shot you if they so much as looked in your direction, where the tank could die if you healed him a half-second too late or too early. That sort of thing mostly ended in frustration for me, but the swarm mentality of STO is quite fun so far.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is something I&#8217;ve been pondering for a while now, since I started playing STO. My character is still only LC2 or so, but I&#8217;m having great fun, and the conclusion I&#8217;m coming to is that it&#8217;s because of how EASY the game is.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going through my solo quests, and no matter what I do, I keep my power at 100% on Weapons and 25% on Shields, because the enemies don&#8217;t hit me hard enough to do anything. I just fly around, gleefully hitting them with photon torpedoes and watching them explode and moving on to the next mob. No downtime, ever.</p>
<p>I went into a ground-based fleet mission over the weekend, there were dozens and dozens of people there, I didn&#8217;t actually join the group and I tend to keep zone chat turned off anyway, so it was utterly silent but for the people /saying &#8220;thx&#8221; when they were rezzed, just an enormous group of players swarming from one Klingon to the next, such that even the big guys with shields went down in a matter of seconds. It was constantly run forward, target, shoot, run forward some more.</p>
<p>I was in that mission for something like 30-45 minutes, and I had a great deal of fun the whole time, though it left me rather exhausted. I can only think back to when I used to raid in WoW, when it was all about bosses that could one-shot you if they so much as looked in your direction, where the tank could die if you healed him a half-second too late or too early. That sort of thing mostly ended in frustration for me, but the swarm mentality of STO is quite fun so far.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: greevil</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/time-to-bring-back-the-40-man-raids-or-what-makes-a-good-public-raid-anyway/#comment-6319</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[greevil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=3335#comment-6319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[yup, sounds like alterac to me.  maybe even wintergrasp too?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yup, sounds like alterac to me.  maybe even wintergrasp too?</p>
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