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	<title>Comments on: It came from the PUG: Ding! Just going to train, back in a few mins!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/07/05/it-came-from-the-pug-ding-just-going-to-train-back-in-a-few-mins/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/07/05/it-came-from-the-pug-ding-just-going-to-train-back-in-a-few-mins/</link>
	<description>MMOs and game design</description>
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		<title>By: Ferran</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/07/05/it-came-from-the-pug-ding-just-going-to-train-back-in-a-few-mins/#comment-10027</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ferran]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jul 2010 04:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=4003#comment-10027</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Happens to me sometimes.

Was it a dwarf? A Paladin dwarf? They always seem to be the most recessive imo.

Anyway I think you mentioned the answer in your post - grown up.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Happens to me sometimes.</p>
<p>Was it a dwarf? A Paladin dwarf? They always seem to be the most recessive imo.</p>
<p>Anyway I think you mentioned the answer in your post &#8211; grown up.</p>
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		<title>By: Katherine</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/07/05/it-came-from-the-pug-ding-just-going-to-train-back-in-a-few-mins/#comment-9782</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Katherine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 01:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=4003#comment-9782</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Though the flip side of this one is the people that push you to do something that the group really CAN&#039;T do, but half the group doesn&#039;t know that, and the person that saw another group of more skilled, better geared people that knew the instance/achievement/whatever and that had a better class balance do it talks the rest of the group into it, and then drops group as soon as you wipe on it once. 

You don&#039;t know it, but one of those 4 probably only knew how to auto-attack, and another probably had their pet on aggressive and pulled extra groups, and the healer was probably dps spec and gear (not that I have a problem with this, but it does mean they can&#039;t make up for Captain Gogo).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though the flip side of this one is the people that push you to do something that the group really CAN&#8217;T do, but half the group doesn&#8217;t know that, and the person that saw another group of more skilled, better geared people that knew the instance/achievement/whatever and that had a better class balance do it talks the rest of the group into it, and then drops group as soon as you wipe on it once. </p>
<p>You don&#8217;t know it, but one of those 4 probably only knew how to auto-attack, and another probably had their pet on aggressive and pulled extra groups, and the healer was probably dps spec and gear (not that I have a problem with this, but it does mean they can&#8217;t make up for Captain Gogo).</p>
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		<title>By: Akasza</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/07/05/it-came-from-the-pug-ding-just-going-to-train-back-in-a-few-mins/#comment-9436</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Akasza]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 01:11:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=4003#comment-9436</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hmm, one more thing came to my mind, I really miss the possibility to interact with queued people and do anything beyond leaving the machine to do its stuff, I was once queued for some lowbie instance at some odd late night hour, we had tank, healer and 2 dps and couldn&#039;t start the group because of the lack of one last dps, finally the night got really late and all other people just quit from the queue. If it was possible, we would just 4 man it, but it isn&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, one more thing came to my mind, I really miss the possibility to interact with queued people and do anything beyond leaving the machine to do its stuff, I was once queued for some lowbie instance at some odd late night hour, we had tank, healer and 2 dps and couldn&#8217;t start the group because of the lack of one last dps, finally the night got really late and all other people just quit from the queue. If it was possible, we would just 4 man it, but it isn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Akasza</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/07/05/it-came-from-the-pug-ding-just-going-to-train-back-in-a-few-mins/#comment-9435</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Akasza]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 01:07:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=4003#comment-9435</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One of the problem with instance teleport out is how it allows griefers, the one odd 1 in 1000 guy who ports out and stays outside and you cannot kick him no matter what &quot;cannot kick in combat&quot; which means even if 4 people are doing nothing and waiting as long as the outside person is in combat, you cannot kick him, at all. Happened to me once. 

Another problem are people coming to an instance for a specific loot from specific boss and as soon as the boss is dead they drop the group, no matter what, whether their item dropped or no, whether they won the roll or no. Many &quot;juicy&quot; items are put on the final boss, to prevent that, but some aren&#039;t. Most famous recent case? Try to join as non-tank for normal Halls of Reflection and look how many tanks gonna stay for the final encounter. 

And finally, what currently annoyed me on my new alt, are instances that are split into some artificial parts and if someone decides to drop the group after random dungeon lootbag, you cannot refill the spot because &quot;instance is complete&quot;, and I had the issue with Blackrock Depths, one person dropped the group as soon as Interrogator was downed, rest wanted to continue but we couldn&#039;t refill. Also couldn&#039;t queue for BRD - Upper City because 1 person was below required level. :-/ (He was 49 and Interrogator run is 47+ while Upper City is 51+.) And the queues can be long at this level... 

Same issue with Maraudon if you want to do Scepter of Celebras quest, as Celebras is beyond &quot;lootbag area&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the problem with instance teleport out is how it allows griefers, the one odd 1 in 1000 guy who ports out and stays outside and you cannot kick him no matter what &#8220;cannot kick in combat&#8221; which means even if 4 people are doing nothing and waiting as long as the outside person is in combat, you cannot kick him, at all. Happened to me once. </p>
<p>Another problem are people coming to an instance for a specific loot from specific boss and as soon as the boss is dead they drop the group, no matter what, whether their item dropped or no, whether they won the roll or no. Many &#8220;juicy&#8221; items are put on the final boss, to prevent that, but some aren&#8217;t. Most famous recent case? Try to join as non-tank for normal Halls of Reflection and look how many tanks gonna stay for the final encounter. </p>
<p>And finally, what currently annoyed me on my new alt, are instances that are split into some artificial parts and if someone decides to drop the group after random dungeon lootbag, you cannot refill the spot because &#8220;instance is complete&#8221;, and I had the issue with Blackrock Depths, one person dropped the group as soon as Interrogator was downed, rest wanted to continue but we couldn&#8217;t refill. Also couldn&#8217;t queue for BRD &#8211; Upper City because 1 person was below required level. :-/ (He was 49 and Interrogator run is 47+ while Upper City is 51+.) And the queues can be long at this level&#8230; </p>
<p>Same issue with Maraudon if you want to do Scepter of Celebras quest, as Celebras is beyond &#8220;lootbag area&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jomu</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/07/05/it-came-from-the-pug-ding-just-going-to-train-back-in-a-few-mins/#comment-9431</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jomu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jul 2010 19:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=4003#comment-9431</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[/agree

playing DDO right now.. atleast its easier to group in WoW.....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>/agree</p>
<p>playing DDO right now.. atleast its easier to group in WoW&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Kring</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/07/05/it-came-from-the-pug-ding-just-going-to-train-back-in-a-few-mins/#comment-9428</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kring]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jul 2010 13:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=4003#comment-9428</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yep, waiting for people to exchange their ring... Annoying... really annoying...

And about being prepared. I had twice a person join a group with ress sickness.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, waiting for people to exchange their ring&#8230; Annoying&#8230; really annoying&#8230;</p>
<p>And about being prepared. I had twice a person join a group with ress sickness.</p>
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		<title>By: ZombiePirate</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/07/05/it-came-from-the-pug-ding-just-going-to-train-back-in-a-few-mins/#comment-9427</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ZombiePirate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jul 2010 10:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=4003#comment-9427</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Same kind of thing annoys me with people that don&#039;t finish an instance. I was in a HoS PUG the one time and they skipped half the bosses to do the final boss so the run would be quicker. A couple of players were constantly badgering the group to go do the last boss from the moment we went in, eventually that happened and once he was dead they left group despite the fact there were another easy two or three badges to be head in there...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Same kind of thing annoys me with people that don&#8217;t finish an instance. I was in a HoS PUG the one time and they skipped half the bosses to do the final boss so the run would be quicker. A couple of players were constantly badgering the group to go do the last boss from the moment we went in, eventually that happened and once he was dead they left group despite the fact there were another easy two or three badges to be head in there&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Inquisitor</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/07/05/it-came-from-the-pug-ding-just-going-to-train-back-in-a-few-mins/#comment-9423</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Inquisitor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jul 2010 08:56:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=4003#comment-9423</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t tolorate it in my raids, certainly. I have raiders who bring gems and enchants, and will throw them in on the way to the next boss, and more power to them... But the rest? Nah, wait for the break. If you absolutely have to go now, we have someone on standby to replace you.

(Memorably, our top fury warrior was carrying around 10 ArP gems, and completely regemmed in the wake of a trinket drop from LDW. Talk about prepared...)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t tolorate it in my raids, certainly. I have raiders who bring gems and enchants, and will throw them in on the way to the next boss, and more power to them&#8230; But the rest? Nah, wait for the break. If you absolutely have to go now, we have someone on standby to replace you.</p>
<p>(Memorably, our top fury warrior was carrying around 10 ArP gems, and completely regemmed in the wake of a trinket drop from LDW. Talk about prepared&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Copra</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/07/05/it-came-from-the-pug-ding-just-going-to-train-back-in-a-few-mins/#comment-9422</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Copra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jul 2010 07:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=4003#comment-9422</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The real issue IMO is the fact that despite of being a Massive Multi-Player phenomenon, everyone is doing everything just and only for themselves. No dedication to group success, no thinking of others on their way to their make believe power, no commitment at all.

Everything here now.

Also it seems that the self-imposed pressure of performance results the same: just blogged about a DK who didn&#039;t want to run HoS because he didn&#039;t know the instance (ok, later he said it is too long).

Badge hunting has also brought up this idiotic thing in which people just skip all the bosses except the final one, only doing what it takes to get to the final one. Sure, completing the instance straight away grants 2 badges, but each boss gives both a badge and stonekeeper&#039;s stones, if your side owns Wintergrasp. They both act as currency, so why not take everything? In the end, it doesn&#039;t effect the badge/time ratio too much, really.

C out]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real issue IMO is the fact that despite of being a Massive Multi-Player phenomenon, everyone is doing everything just and only for themselves. No dedication to group success, no thinking of others on their way to their make believe power, no commitment at all.</p>
<p>Everything here now.</p>
<p>Also it seems that the self-imposed pressure of performance results the same: just blogged about a DK who didn&#8217;t want to run HoS because he didn&#8217;t know the instance (ok, later he said it is too long).</p>
<p>Badge hunting has also brought up this idiotic thing in which people just skip all the bosses except the final one, only doing what it takes to get to the final one. Sure, completing the instance straight away grants 2 badges, but each boss gives both a badge and stonekeeper&#8217;s stones, if your side owns Wintergrasp. They both act as currency, so why not take everything? In the end, it doesn&#8217;t effect the badge/time ratio too much, really.</p>
<p>C out</p>
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		<title>By: Rhii</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/07/05/it-came-from-the-pug-ding-just-going-to-train-back-in-a-few-mins/#comment-9421</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rhii]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jul 2010 07:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=4003#comment-9421</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I prefer people who port out to train to people who  drop group immediately upon gaining a level. It makes me feel used. They join this dungeon to get their one thing out of it (x amount of xp) and once they get it, they have no commitment to finishing it out like a member of a TEAM.

I tried to point out to someone once why it was a dick move and they said &quot;lol you can get another dps so easy&quot;. It&#039;s not the *point*... I bet those same dps would be mighty steamed if their tank did it. It&#039;s not how much you inconvenience the rest of the group, it&#039;s that you think it&#039;s okay to inconvenience others.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I prefer people who port out to train to people who  drop group immediately upon gaining a level. It makes me feel used. They join this dungeon to get their one thing out of it (x amount of xp) and once they get it, they have no commitment to finishing it out like a member of a TEAM.</p>
<p>I tried to point out to someone once why it was a dick move and they said &#8220;lol you can get another dps so easy&#8221;. It&#8217;s not the *point*&#8230; I bet those same dps would be mighty steamed if their tank did it. It&#8217;s not how much you inconvenience the rest of the group, it&#8217;s that you think it&#8217;s okay to inconvenience others.</p>
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