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	<title>Comments on: [It came from the PUG]: No one knows the way back from the graveyard!</title>
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	<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/it-came-from-the-pug-no-one-knows-the-way-back-from-the-graveyard/</link>
	<description>MMOs and game design</description>
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		<title>By: BenMS</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/it-came-from-the-pug-no-one-knows-the-way-back-from-the-graveyard/#comment-11005</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BenMS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 02:49:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=4460#comment-11005</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You don&#039;t need to discover the old instances, that only applies to the new Cataclysm instances. Alliance will still be able to do RFC at the appropriate level, and same for Horde for Deadmines.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You don&#8217;t need to discover the old instances, that only applies to the new Cataclysm instances. Alliance will still be able to do RFC at the appropriate level, and same for Horde for Deadmines.</p>
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		<title>By: Changing Times (1) &#124; Kill Ten Rats</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/it-came-from-the-pug-no-one-knows-the-way-back-from-the-graveyard/#comment-10995</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Changing Times (1) &#124; Kill Ten Rats]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 11:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=4460#comment-10995</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] cap with decent gear who did not know what half his abilities were, how to function in a group, or where common locations were. Now that is [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] cap with decent gear who did not know what half his abilities were, how to function in a group, or where common locations were. Now that is [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/it-came-from-the-pug-no-one-knows-the-way-back-from-the-graveyard/#comment-10970</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Sep 2010 23:55:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=4460#comment-10970</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ll admit I&#039;m guilty of leaving group as a tank.

Just this morning I did, when I randomed into ToC Heroic and some guy decided he wanted to see the introduction and started the long version of it.

When I asked he said &quot;lol, i just wanted to see the introduction&quot; (his spelling was worse than that).

sorry, but I queue as a tank for randoms because I want to get stuff done quickly, and an extra five minutes is not something I&#039;m willing to wait for because of some idiot.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll admit I&#8217;m guilty of leaving group as a tank.</p>
<p>Just this morning I did, when I randomed into ToC Heroic and some guy decided he wanted to see the introduction and started the long version of it.</p>
<p>When I asked he said &#8220;lol, i just wanted to see the introduction&#8221; (his spelling was worse than that).</p>
<p>sorry, but I queue as a tank for randoms because I want to get stuff done quickly, and an extra five minutes is not something I&#8217;m willing to wait for because of some idiot.</p>
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		<title>By: Kring</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/it-came-from-the-pug-no-one-knows-the-way-back-from-the-graveyard/#comment-10967</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kring]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Sep 2010 17:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=4460#comment-10967</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is the deserter debuff.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is the deserter debuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Jal</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/it-came-from-the-pug-no-one-knows-the-way-back-from-the-graveyard/#comment-10955</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Sep 2010 01:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=4460#comment-10955</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The tank said, “Haha, oops sorry” … and then left.&quot;

As a guy whose guild was always a social guild without any scheduled runs, I PUGged a lot.  This sort of behavior is part of the reason I&#039;m not playing WoW now.  It kills the game.  Not fun.

Even Madden and NCAA online have penalties for disconnections.  There should be some sort of penalty in WoW.  I don&#039;t care if it&#039;s 200g per player or what, but it should happen.  If you lose your net connection, I&#039;m tempted to say it&#039;s just too bad.  If you&#039;re lagging, you should have some option, and the party should certainly be able to vote to allow a drop, but disconnections, especially ones after a full party wipe, should be penalized in-game in a way that benefits those who stick around.

/rant.  ;^)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The tank said, “Haha, oops sorry” … and then left.&#8221;</p>
<p>As a guy whose guild was always a social guild without any scheduled runs, I PUGged a lot.  This sort of behavior is part of the reason I&#8217;m not playing WoW now.  It kills the game.  Not fun.</p>
<p>Even Madden and NCAA online have penalties for disconnections.  There should be some sort of penalty in WoW.  I don&#8217;t care if it&#8217;s 200g per player or what, but it should happen.  If you lose your net connection, I&#8217;m tempted to say it&#8217;s just too bad.  If you&#8217;re lagging, you should have some option, and the party should certainly be able to vote to allow a drop, but disconnections, especially ones after a full party wipe, should be penalized in-game in a way that benefits those who stick around.</p>
<p>/rant.  ;^)</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/it-came-from-the-pug-no-one-knows-the-way-back-from-the-graveyard/#comment-10885</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 05:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=4460#comment-10885</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is, in my opinion, one of the really major unarguable downfalls of the Dungeon Finder. We can argue our way around the other downsides, such as the lack of community, the speedy runs, etc, but those are all subjective. This is objectively a bad thing. 

Its also a bit of a pang of nostalgia, as I imagine the only people who wouldn&#039;t know the way to Blood Furnace are people who never played during The Burning Crusade, as it was nearly impossible to level through Outland and not do Blood Furnace at least once, if not several times. It had three awesome XP quests, with two solid quest rewards, plus a bunch of decent blue loot for levelling players. Now, though, people blitz through Outland in heirlooms, so none of the gear is of much use, they use the Dungeon Finder if they do dungeons at all, and as such they never have the fun of running from Thrallmar across that big bridge, up the wooden tower, across another bridge, turn the corner, and there&#039;s Blood Furnace.
And even on the odd chance that they do know where Blood Furnace&#039;s entrance is, now that you can fly from level 60, they probably fly to it, and as such have no dea how to get there by land.

However, I&#039;m not silly enough to not recognise that my longing for those days is motivated purely by rose-coloured glasses. Things have improved for the better in Wrath, and while there are things I miss, I&#039;m fairly sure its nostalgia thats making me miss them and not any true sort of objective quality loss. 

Take the Illidan fight for example...I miss that fight a lot, because I was a flame tank, and it was one of the few opportunites that a good tank got, to set them apart from the rabble of &quot;lol i has sheild i tank&quot; tanks that will always be around. However, loooking objectively at it, the Illidan fight was quite poor design. Five phases, one of which REQUIRED two tanks with specific gear sets, neither of whom would do anything else for phase 1, 3, 4, or 5. Terrible fight design when you look at the fantastic fights we have in Wrath, like Malygos, Yogg-Saron, Mimiron, Algalon, Anub&#039;Arak, The Lich King, and probably some other fights in ICC that I haven&#039;t done enough times yet to know how good they are.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is, in my opinion, one of the really major unarguable downfalls of the Dungeon Finder. We can argue our way around the other downsides, such as the lack of community, the speedy runs, etc, but those are all subjective. This is objectively a bad thing. </p>
<p>Its also a bit of a pang of nostalgia, as I imagine the only people who wouldn&#8217;t know the way to Blood Furnace are people who never played during The Burning Crusade, as it was nearly impossible to level through Outland and not do Blood Furnace at least once, if not several times. It had three awesome XP quests, with two solid quest rewards, plus a bunch of decent blue loot for levelling players. Now, though, people blitz through Outland in heirlooms, so none of the gear is of much use, they use the Dungeon Finder if they do dungeons at all, and as such they never have the fun of running from Thrallmar across that big bridge, up the wooden tower, across another bridge, turn the corner, and there&#8217;s Blood Furnace.<br />
And even on the odd chance that they do know where Blood Furnace&#8217;s entrance is, now that you can fly from level 60, they probably fly to it, and as such have no dea how to get there by land.</p>
<p>However, I&#8217;m not silly enough to not recognise that my longing for those days is motivated purely by rose-coloured glasses. Things have improved for the better in Wrath, and while there are things I miss, I&#8217;m fairly sure its nostalgia thats making me miss them and not any true sort of objective quality loss. </p>
<p>Take the Illidan fight for example&#8230;I miss that fight a lot, because I was a flame tank, and it was one of the few opportunites that a good tank got, to set them apart from the rabble of &#8220;lol i has sheild i tank&#8221; tanks that will always be around. However, loooking objectively at it, the Illidan fight was quite poor design. Five phases, one of which REQUIRED two tanks with specific gear sets, neither of whom would do anything else for phase 1, 3, 4, or 5. Terrible fight design when you look at the fantastic fights we have in Wrath, like Malygos, Yogg-Saron, Mimiron, Algalon, Anub&#8217;Arak, The Lich King, and probably some other fights in ICC that I haven&#8217;t done enough times yet to know how good they are.</p>
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		<title>By: Oz</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/it-came-from-the-pug-no-one-knows-the-way-back-from-the-graveyard/#comment-10884</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Oz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 21:26:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=4460#comment-10884</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There could be a yellow brick road from the graveyard to the entrance of whatever instance you wiped on.  Just follow the road, little ghost.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There could be a yellow brick road from the graveyard to the entrance of whatever instance you wiped on.  Just follow the road, little ghost.</p>
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		<title>By: Ratshag</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/it-came-from-the-pug-no-one-knows-the-way-back-from-the-graveyard/#comment-10880</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ratshag]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 16:16:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=4460#comment-10880</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Least favorite corpse run: Black Fathom Deep
The graveyard is in an entirely different glubbernuggin zone, and ya has to know ta first go around the mountains, and thens dive under the walls. Is a looong run ta begin with, and always some poor bugger what don&#039;t know the way. Done takes ferevers ta recover.

ICC be a pain too, if someone don&#039;t know the trick. I means, the minimap arrow points ya right to an instance portal, it just happens ta be &lt;i&gt;the wrong dang instance&lt;/i&gt;. Bad design, that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Least favorite corpse run: Black Fathom Deep<br />
The graveyard is in an entirely different glubbernuggin zone, and ya has to know ta first go around the mountains, and thens dive under the walls. Is a looong run ta begin with, and always some poor bugger what don&#8217;t know the way. Done takes ferevers ta recover.</p>
<p>ICC be a pain too, if someone don&#8217;t know the trick. I means, the minimap arrow points ya right to an instance portal, it just happens ta be <i>the wrong dang instance</i>. Bad design, that.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugmenot</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/it-came-from-the-pug-no-one-knows-the-way-back-from-the-graveyard/#comment-10874</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hugmenot]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 14:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=4460#comment-10874</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would much prefer an AddOn which would automatically remove me from group when the DPS intentionally pulls more mobs.

I don&#039;t understand what motivates DPSers who had to wait 20 - 40 minutes for a group to form to continue pulling trash after I posted the &quot;rules&quot; at the beginning of the run and again, after the first time he or she intentionally pulled a group.

I hope these DPSers get a wake-up call in Cataclysm if CC is indeed needed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would much prefer an AddOn which would automatically remove me from group when the DPS intentionally pulls more mobs.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t understand what motivates DPSers who had to wait 20 &#8211; 40 minutes for a group to form to continue pulling trash after I posted the &#8220;rules&#8221; at the beginning of the run and again, after the first time he or she intentionally pulled a group.</p>
<p>I hope these DPSers get a wake-up call in Cataclysm if CC is indeed needed.</p>
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		<title>By: Red</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/it-came-from-the-pug-no-one-knows-the-way-back-from-the-graveyard/#comment-10873</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Red]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 13:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=4460#comment-10873</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In cataclysm, you will have to &quot;discover&quot; the entrance to the instance before you can queue for it. That kinda kills RFC for Alliance, and probably Deadmines for Horde.

I was in an instance and we wiped. No one left, but one guy did not know the way back (I was not surprised that it was a DK) and his solution was to rez at the graveyard and port back in.

My solution would be to look at a few &quot;instances&quot; in the game where cross-server activities have been happening for a while. PvP. If you die, you wait 30 seconds and rez. There should be a spirit healer at the entrance to every instance.

Granted that this could lead to &quot;zerging&quot; in some instances, VH and ToC come to mind real fast. To prevent this, make the timer wait until combat ends. After the wipe, poof, you are right back in.

Worst part of the LFG system is waiting 30+ minutes to get into a group, wipe before the first boss, and have the group fall apart and have to start all over again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In cataclysm, you will have to &#8220;discover&#8221; the entrance to the instance before you can queue for it. That kinda kills RFC for Alliance, and probably Deadmines for Horde.</p>
<p>I was in an instance and we wiped. No one left, but one guy did not know the way back (I was not surprised that it was a DK) and his solution was to rez at the graveyard and port back in.</p>
<p>My solution would be to look at a few &#8220;instances&#8221; in the game where cross-server activities have been happening for a while. PvP. If you die, you wait 30 seconds and rez. There should be a spirit healer at the entrance to every instance.</p>
<p>Granted that this could lead to &#8220;zerging&#8221; in some instances, VH and ToC come to mind real fast. To prevent this, make the timer wait until combat ends. After the wipe, poof, you are right back in.</p>
<p>Worst part of the LFG system is waiting 30+ minutes to get into a group, wipe before the first boss, and have the group fall apart and have to start all over again.</p>
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