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	<title>Comments on: The lifecycle of a [WoW] guild</title>
	<atom:link href="http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/the-lifecycle-of-a-wow-guild/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/the-lifecycle-of-a-wow-guild/</link>
	<description>MMOs and game design</description>
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		<title>By: Genda</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/the-lifecycle-of-a-wow-guild/#comment-13067</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Genda]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 15:00:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5095#comment-13067</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It comes down to patience, which many modern WoW players may lack.  

Personally, and this goes for a lot of people in my guild, I&#039;d rather kill something next month after learning it together than skipping ahead and doing it this week with strangers.  Somewhere along the line the sense of accomplishment and community got replaced with a sense of entitlement.  Faster equals higher self-worth. 

So far Blizzard has demonstrated that they are on a 2 year cycle for new content.  I&#039;m not quite sure why so many feel like they need to finish it in the next month.

Me, I like the smell of the roses.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It comes down to patience, which many modern WoW players may lack.  </p>
<p>Personally, and this goes for a lot of people in my guild, I&#8217;d rather kill something next month after learning it together than skipping ahead and doing it this week with strangers.  Somewhere along the line the sense of accomplishment and community got replaced with a sense of entitlement.  Faster equals higher self-worth. </p>
<p>So far Blizzard has demonstrated that they are on a 2 year cycle for new content.  I&#8217;m not quite sure why so many feel like they need to finish it in the next month.</p>
<p>Me, I like the smell of the roses.</p>
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		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/the-lifecycle-of-a-wow-guild/#comment-13062</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5095#comment-13062</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think people will just tend to have alts in different guilds. Harsh on guild leaders who would probably prefer players to be dedicated to a single guild, but so it goes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think people will just tend to have alts in different guilds. Harsh on guild leaders who would probably prefer players to be dedicated to a single guild, but so it goes.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/the-lifecycle-of-a-wow-guild/#comment-13060</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5095#comment-13060</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Some employers do find it really tough to keep training up new employees (which is expensive) only to have them leave. They just don&#039;t talk about it much.


I don&#039;t think raiders who join more hardcore guilds are betrayers and I don&#039;t blame them for wanting to play the game the way it&#039;s presented. But I think more diverse guilds are more fun to be in, personally. Plus if you can&#039;t raid for a few weeks or your class is underpowered for a patch, you don&#039;t find yourself socially excluded.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some employers do find it really tough to keep training up new employees (which is expensive) only to have them leave. They just don&#8217;t talk about it much.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think raiders who join more hardcore guilds are betrayers and I don&#8217;t blame them for wanting to play the game the way it&#8217;s presented. But I think more diverse guilds are more fun to be in, personally. Plus if you can&#8217;t raid for a few weeks or your class is underpowered for a patch, you don&#8217;t find yourself socially excluded.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kring</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/the-lifecycle-of-a-wow-guild/#comment-13059</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kring]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:52:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5095#comment-13059</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I didn&#039;t want to imply that everyone has the perfect job. (Nor that everyone has the perfect raid.)

But we try to find a better job if we aren&#039;t satisfied with the current one (or at least we should). And nobody (usually) sees you as a betrayer if you take an opportunity and switch job.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t want to imply that everyone has the perfect job. (Nor that everyone has the perfect raid.)</p>
<p>But we try to find a better job if we aren&#8217;t satisfied with the current one (or at least we should). And nobody (usually) sees you as a betrayer if you take an opportunity and switch job.</p>
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		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/the-lifecycle-of-a-wow-guild/#comment-13058</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5095#comment-13058</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with you, it is down to Blizzard and the way the endgame is designed. And that you get a fair number of rather single minded players who get fixated on certain types of measurable reward  and then tend to set the pace for how the community measures players.

There&#039;s also a kind of confidence trick going on where if enough people really believe that the best way to pursue progression is by finding a hardcore guild then ... it becomes true. Even though it makes a lot of players unhappy and pressures them to play on schedules that aren&#039;t ideal.

It&#039;s also much easier to advertise a really focussed guild to players, as opposed to &#039;we&#039;re friendly to people who don&#039;t annoy us, mature, a bit hardcore but not much, plus we like playing on friday nights and sometimes swear in danish&#039;.

iRL, it&#039;s a bit less clear because often people are following multiple goals so they&#039;re balancing different priorities. Lots of people do jobs they don&#039;t love because it&#039;s a) all they can get b) need the money c) need the experience d) fits in with childcare arrangements etc etc]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you, it is down to Blizzard and the way the endgame is designed. And that you get a fair number of rather single minded players who get fixated on certain types of measurable reward  and then tend to set the pace for how the community measures players.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s also a kind of confidence trick going on where if enough people really believe that the best way to pursue progression is by finding a hardcore guild then &#8230; it becomes true. Even though it makes a lot of players unhappy and pressures them to play on schedules that aren&#8217;t ideal.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also much easier to advertise a really focussed guild to players, as opposed to &#8216;we&#8217;re friendly to people who don&#8217;t annoy us, mature, a bit hardcore but not much, plus we like playing on friday nights and sometimes swear in danish&#8217;.</p>
<p>iRL, it&#8217;s a bit less clear because often people are following multiple goals so they&#8217;re balancing different priorities. Lots of people do jobs they don&#8217;t love because it&#8217;s a) all they can get b) need the money c) need the experience d) fits in with childcare arrangements etc etc</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jezebeau</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/the-lifecycle-of-a-wow-guild/#comment-13057</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jezebeau]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5095#comment-13057</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, I&#039;ve certainly been in a few CoX guilds where the guild leader does recruiting sprees to keep prestige income up, they eventually leave or retire, and eventually the guild leader loses interest and doesn&#039;t log in except once every 44 days to retain control of the toys in their base.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;ve certainly been in a few CoX guilds where the guild leader does recruiting sprees to keep prestige income up, they eventually leave or retire, and eventually the guild leader loses interest and doesn&#8217;t log in except once every 44 days to retain control of the toys in their base.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kring</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/the-lifecycle-of-a-wow-guild/#comment-13056</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kring]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:02:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5095#comment-13056</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sure, but if the majority of the player base still doesn&#039;t enjoy/isn&#039;t able to organize 10 man raids, then they did not yet succeed in my opinion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, but if the majority of the player base still doesn&#8217;t enjoy/isn&#8217;t able to organize 10 man raids, then they did not yet succeed in my opinion.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Everblue</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/the-lifecycle-of-a-wow-guild/#comment-13055</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Everblue]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5095#comment-13055</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well Blizzard have reduced raid sizes from 40 to 10. It seems like they&#039;ve done quite a lot already!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Blizzard have reduced raid sizes from 40 to 10. It seems like they&#8217;ve done quite a lot already!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kring</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/the-lifecycle-of-a-wow-guild/#comment-13054</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kring]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 10:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5095#comment-13054</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is a good thing that the more hardcore players switch raid to join a raid which better fits them. We do the same IRL. We switch jobs which better fit our &quot;hardcoreness&quot; or we switch sports clubs and so on. People should &quot;play&quot; together with people who prefer the same way of playing.

If that kills of guilds, and it does, then it&#039;s not the fault of the people who leave. It&#039;s the fault of Blizzard who creates a game that requires an insane amount of organization from the raid leaders to allow others to beat their content. Raids in the current form should be replaced with more casual friendly content. And I don&#039;t mean easier to beat, but easier to organize. The current heroics show that 5 man bosses can also be more complex than patchwerk but 5 man groups can be formed ad-hoc and don&#039;t need a fix schedule. Just create an epic difficulty level which is even more demanding and reward it with raid level epic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is a good thing that the more hardcore players switch raid to join a raid which better fits them. We do the same IRL. We switch jobs which better fit our &#8220;hardcoreness&#8221; or we switch sports clubs and so on. People should &#8220;play&#8221; together with people who prefer the same way of playing.</p>
<p>If that kills of guilds, and it does, then it&#8217;s not the fault of the people who leave. It&#8217;s the fault of Blizzard who creates a game that requires an insane amount of organization from the raid leaders to allow others to beat their content. Raids in the current form should be replaced with more casual friendly content. And I don&#8217;t mean easier to beat, but easier to organize. The current heroics show that 5 man bosses can also be more complex than patchwerk but 5 man groups can be formed ad-hoc and don&#8217;t need a fix schedule. Just create an epic difficulty level which is even more demanding and reward it with raid level epic.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kadomi</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/the-lifecycle-of-a-wow-guild/#comment-13052</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kadomi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:56:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5095#comment-13052</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have seen this time and again on my main server. My own guild is already one of the oldest horde guilds on the server (six years in April). As our focus is to be a fun place for all-females, we don&#039;t often have the issue that people move on to be more hardcore, but it does of course happen. The same girls often come back, then leave again. WotLK was extremely exhausting in that respect and we had a lot of raiders move on to greener pastures. Or, what I personally found more aggravating, people only pugged content, instead of doing things with the guild.

But all around us raiding guilds grow, prosper, fall apart, die. We&#039;re a backwater server progression-wise, so those who are most hardcore usually split their guilds and then often leave the realm for a more progressed one. 

It will be interesting to see how guild leveling changes this. Will people be just as willing to break apart their level 25 guild and start from scratch? Will people pick up the torch instead? Will people want to start grinding guild rep, which is not exactly the fastest process in the world? I wonder if that will have any impact.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have seen this time and again on my main server. My own guild is already one of the oldest horde guilds on the server (six years in April). As our focus is to be a fun place for all-females, we don&#8217;t often have the issue that people move on to be more hardcore, but it does of course happen. The same girls often come back, then leave again. WotLK was extremely exhausting in that respect and we had a lot of raiders move on to greener pastures. Or, what I personally found more aggravating, people only pugged content, instead of doing things with the guild.</p>
<p>But all around us raiding guilds grow, prosper, fall apart, die. We&#8217;re a backwater server progression-wise, so those who are most hardcore usually split their guilds and then often leave the realm for a more progressed one. </p>
<p>It will be interesting to see how guild leveling changes this. Will people be just as willing to break apart their level 25 guild and start from scratch? Will people pick up the torch instead? Will people want to start grinding guild rep, which is not exactly the fastest process in the world? I wonder if that will have any impact.</p>
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