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	<title>Comments on: On the cost of MMOs</title>
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	<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/05/27/on-the-cost-of-mmos/</link>
	<description>MMOs and game design</description>
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		<title>By: Why CoD Elite is great for gamers &#171; Welcome to Spinksville!</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/05/27/on-the-cost-of-mmos/#comment-14846</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Why CoD Elite is great for gamers &#171; Welcome to Spinksville!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2011 05:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5474#comment-14846</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] the end of the day, you pays your money and you takes your choice. I commented recently that the way I&#8217;d prefer MMOs to earn more money from players is to offer more services and [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the end of the day, you pays your money and you takes your choice. I commented recently that the way I&#8217;d prefer MMOs to earn more money from players is to offer more services and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jal</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/05/27/on-the-cost-of-mmos/#comment-14798</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 May 2011 21:58:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5474#comment-14798</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;And still, the average (median) hobbyist in the US spends $23 per month[, close to] the average subscription... I think game devs get their pound of flesh.&quot;

That&#039;s the only part of your conclusion the analysis influences a good bit...  It&#039;s not like Blizzard is looking at a market of people with only $23 a month to spend.  What it means is that those in Blizzard&#039;s market have (metaphorically speaking) $58+$35 a month to spend on hobbies, as in MMORPG players are making up for one or more of those whose hobbies are in the $23 range.  Now a $15 subscription ain&#039;t much at all.  Lots of room for growth, and lots more pounds of flesh to marketize.

See the Plants vs. Zombies experiment, trying to see how popular an in-game game might be?  And how long before battleground realms are pay to play?  Marketize the edges to pull more from those who can pay and are paying to play LOTRO, etc. at the same time as WoW.

I wonder how long before WoW, at least, goes to a subscription *plus* Team Fortress 2 virtual shop model, where your purchases may not intentionally increase your success in game, but they do directly affect gameplay.

But for now, excuse me, I&#039;m going to the polo pitch.  Ur, I mean running in my 6 month old shoes.  About time to buy another pair, I think.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And still, the average (median) hobbyist in the US spends $23 per month[, close to] the average subscription&#8230; I think game devs get their pound of flesh.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the only part of your conclusion the analysis influences a good bit&#8230;  It&#8217;s not like Blizzard is looking at a market of people with only $23 a month to spend.  What it means is that those in Blizzard&#8217;s market have (metaphorically speaking) $58+$35 a month to spend on hobbies, as in MMORPG players are making up for one or more of those whose hobbies are in the $23 range.  Now a $15 subscription ain&#8217;t much at all.  Lots of room for growth, and lots more pounds of flesh to marketize.</p>
<p>See the Plants vs. Zombies experiment, trying to see how popular an in-game game might be?  And how long before battleground realms are pay to play?  Marketize the edges to pull more from those who can pay and are paying to play LOTRO, etc. at the same time as WoW.</p>
<p>I wonder how long before WoW, at least, goes to a subscription *plus* Team Fortress 2 virtual shop model, where your purchases may not intentionally increase your success in game, but they do directly affect gameplay.</p>
<p>But for now, excuse me, I&#8217;m going to the polo pitch.  Ur, I mean running in my 6 month old shoes.  About time to buy another pair, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/05/27/on-the-cost-of-mmos/#comment-14797</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 May 2011 21:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5474#comment-14797</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting analysis. I&#039;d just add that I&#039;m not sure if these figures are for total hobby spend (ie. if people have several hobbies, do they spend this much on each or does the total get split between them). So while I agree that computer gamers mostly do fall in the young male bracket which has more disposable income, I suspect most also have multiple hobbies.

But yeah, certainly people at the top end have extremely expensive hobbies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting analysis. I&#8217;d just add that I&#8217;m not sure if these figures are for total hobby spend (ie. if people have several hobbies, do they spend this much on each or does the total get split between them). So while I agree that computer gamers mostly do fall in the young male bracket which has more disposable income, I suspect most also have multiple hobbies.</p>
<p>But yeah, certainly people at the top end have extremely expensive hobbies.</p>
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		<title>By: Jal</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/05/27/on-the-cost-of-mmos/#comment-14796</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 May 2011 21:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5474#comment-14796</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Okay, I think I did some strange reinterpretation of mode with the weekly bit, which should teach me to post when I&#039;m shot, but the rest stands.  If the median is $23 and the average is $58, sheesh, some folk are doing crazy spending.  Some of those people are in the privileged category we call MMORPG addicts.  Some play golf or, worse, polo!  ;^)

For each month someone else spends $23, we&#039;ve got $35 worth of spending to make up for.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, I think I did some strange reinterpretation of mode with the weekly bit, which should teach me to post when I&#8217;m shot, but the rest stands.  If the median is $23 and the average is $58, sheesh, some folk are doing crazy spending.  Some of those people are in the privileged category we call MMORPG addicts.  Some play golf or, worse, polo!  ;^)</p>
<p>For each month someone else spends $23, we&#8217;ve got $35 worth of spending to make up for.</p>
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		<title>By: Jal</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/05/27/on-the-cost-of-mmos/#comment-14795</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 May 2011 21:08:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5474#comment-14795</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;How many non-MMOs will you need a month? At least one a week i’d say.&quot;

Here&#039;s someone who doesn&#039;t play GTA or Civ or...  ;^)  And even when I pay to play WoW, I&#039;m not playing 20 hours a week.

(... or angband!)


&quot;What that means is that most hobbies are not actually as expensive as $58 per month..&quot;

Way off Spinks.  The numbers tell you that most hobbies require large outlays instead of monthly bills.  Your average spender is spending $120 on running shoes twice a year, or $80 on fancy needles for knitting, or $300 for a rifle, or $80 for bread bans, spoon, and wooden mixing bowl...  Then they pay a few bucks in between to sustain the practice for road races, thread, ammo &amp; range fees, wheat &amp; yeast, whatever.

Most months, the hobbies cost much less ($23), but for the year, factoring in big expenditures, it&#039;s still $58/mth.  Each month it&#039;s $23, they&#039;ve got $35 saved up to splurge later.


&quot;At the extremes, the 10th percentile (low spenders) spent $5 on Hobbies in the U.S. and the 90th percentile (high spenders) spent $130 on Hobbies in the U.S.&quot;

Remember how much more disposable income gamers have.  If people with 1.) A relatively fast box 2.) broadband and 3.) enough cash to consider a monthly subscription aren&#039;t on the high side of the average, I&#039;d be surprised.  Their average is well above the median any way you slice it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;How many non-MMOs will you need a month? At least one a week i’d say.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s someone who doesn&#8217;t play GTA or Civ or&#8230;  ;^)  And even when I pay to play WoW, I&#8217;m not playing 20 hours a week.</p>
<p>(&#8230; or angband!)</p>
<p>&#8220;What that means is that most hobbies are not actually as expensive as $58 per month..&#8221;</p>
<p>Way off Spinks.  The numbers tell you that most hobbies require large outlays instead of monthly bills.  Your average spender is spending $120 on running shoes twice a year, or $80 on fancy needles for knitting, or $300 for a rifle, or $80 for bread bans, spoon, and wooden mixing bowl&#8230;  Then they pay a few bucks in between to sustain the practice for road races, thread, ammo &amp; range fees, wheat &amp; yeast, whatever.</p>
<p>Most months, the hobbies cost much less ($23), but for the year, factoring in big expenditures, it&#8217;s still $58/mth.  Each month it&#8217;s $23, they&#8217;ve got $35 saved up to splurge later.</p>
<p>&#8220;At the extremes, the 10th percentile (low spenders) spent $5 on Hobbies in the U.S. and the 90th percentile (high spenders) spent $130 on Hobbies in the U.S.&#8221;</p>
<p>Remember how much more disposable income gamers have.  If people with 1.) A relatively fast box 2.) broadband and 3.) enough cash to consider a monthly subscription aren&#8217;t on the high side of the average, I&#8217;d be surprised.  Their average is well above the median any way you slice it.</p>
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		<title>By: kiantremayne</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/05/27/on-the-cost-of-mmos/#comment-14793</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kiantremayne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 May 2011 07:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5474#comment-14793</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The spin-off product I think would have most mileage would be books - they offer a dedicated fan of the game world a way of being in it and getting a deeper understanding of lore when they can&#039;t actually be playing. And with e-book readers becoming more prevalent, the fight for shelf space is less of a problem - the company could sell the e-books directly from their website.

So while there already are some Warcraft novels and I think one or two EVE books floating around, the time seems right for a lot more novels set in game worlds.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The spin-off product I think would have most mileage would be books &#8211; they offer a dedicated fan of the game world a way of being in it and getting a deeper understanding of lore when they can&#8217;t actually be playing. And with e-book readers becoming more prevalent, the fight for shelf space is less of a problem &#8211; the company could sell the e-books directly from their website.</p>
<p>So while there already are some Warcraft novels and I think one or two EVE books floating around, the time seems right for a lot more novels set in game worlds.</p>
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		<title>By: Tesh</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/05/27/on-the-cost-of-mmos/#comment-14790</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tesh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2011 21:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5474#comment-14790</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I get a LOT of mileage out of Microprose classics, sandbox games and used to get a lot out of shooters (PvP) when I played them.  $15 goes a long way if you spend it right.  (Specifically, the X-Com collection on Steam.  Even better if you get it on sale.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get a LOT of mileage out of Microprose classics, sandbox games and used to get a lot out of shooters (PvP) when I played them.  $15 goes a long way if you spend it right.  (Specifically, the X-Com collection on Steam.  Even better if you get it on sale.)</p>
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		<title>By: ironyca</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/05/27/on-the-cost-of-mmos/#comment-14789</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ironyca]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2011 20:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5474#comment-14789</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t read Tobold because I don&#039;t find him to be a beacon of light, as with this post, sometimes he just really misses the mark and I sit and wonder if he was being ironic all the time.

You mention Huizingas Magic Circle, but I also came to think of the Just World Fallacy, an ideal I see us chasing in game worlds, where money would ruin the fact that sub MMO&#039;s right now only refer to themselves, they are closed systems, not a display of actual buying power.

And what Stabs said!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t read Tobold because I don&#8217;t find him to be a beacon of light, as with this post, sometimes he just really misses the mark and I sit and wonder if he was being ironic all the time.</p>
<p>You mention Huizingas Magic Circle, but I also came to think of the Just World Fallacy, an ideal I see us chasing in game worlds, where money would ruin the fact that sub MMO&#8217;s right now only refer to themselves, they are closed systems, not a display of actual buying power.</p>
<p>And what Stabs said!</p>
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		<title>By: silvertemplar</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/05/27/on-the-cost-of-mmos/#comment-14788</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[silvertemplar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2011 20:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5474#comment-14788</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Both COD and SC2 will have you paying $15 quite regularly for &quot;map packs&quot; and &quot;expansions&quot; . So i won&#039;t be surprised if those that -only- play COD or SC2 are spending alot more on a single game than one might think.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Both COD and SC2 will have you paying $15 quite regularly for &#8220;map packs&#8221; and &#8220;expansions&#8221; . So i won&#8217;t be surprised if those that -only- play COD or SC2 are spending alot more on a single game than one might think.</p>
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		<title>By: Pai</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/05/27/on-the-cost-of-mmos/#comment-14786</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pai]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2011 19:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5474#comment-14786</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It goes to show that many MMORPG fans are basically begging some game company to take their money (and lots of it), if only they provide the type of gameplay that they want. Which is the trick -- since that passionate niche are in the minority and therefore not as financially appealing as the mass market.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It goes to show that many MMORPG fans are basically begging some game company to take their money (and lots of it), if only they provide the type of gameplay that they want. Which is the trick &#8212; since that passionate niche are in the minority and therefore not as financially appealing as the mass market.</p>
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