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	<title>Comments on: Evolution of the F2P model (pay to win is coming)</title>
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	<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/11/24/evolution-of-the-f2p-model-pay-to-win-is-coming/</link>
	<description>MMOs and game design</description>
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		<title>By: Fred Blartfast</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/11/24/evolution-of-the-f2p-model-pay-to-win-is-coming/#comment-22338</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fred Blartfast]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2012 12:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5936#comment-22338</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You hit the nail squarely on the head.  They may start out innocent and with good intentions, but all it takes is for a quarter or two with a handful of suckers who drop several thousand dollars, for the bean counters to take over complete control of game design objectives.  From that point on, drops are nerfed for everyone, new player areas are intentionally ignored, while gated end game content begins to be churned out.  The gates usually consist of level and gear requirements with said gear being accessible only with substantial cash shop purchases.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You hit the nail squarely on the head.  They may start out innocent and with good intentions, but all it takes is for a quarter or two with a handful of suckers who drop several thousand dollars, for the bean counters to take over complete control of game design objectives.  From that point on, drops are nerfed for everyone, new player areas are intentionally ignored, while gated end game content begins to be churned out.  The gates usually consist of level and gear requirements with said gear being accessible only with substantial cash shop purchases.</p>
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		<title>By: shuch@jive.com</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/11/24/evolution-of-the-f2p-model-pay-to-win-is-coming/#comment-21598</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[shuch@jive.com]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2012 12:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5936#comment-21598</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pay to Win is a suckers bet.  It is like putting  your money into an online casino where if you win, all you get are pixels.  If that is what appeals to rubes, that is their problem, but I will be playing something else.  

The real problem with P2W games is the companies eventually get too greedy and focus on the few suckers who spend thousands of dollars, and ride that for all it is worth, to the extent that the game becomes so unfriendly to new players that the player base drys up.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pay to Win is a suckers bet.  It is like putting  your money into an online casino where if you win, all you get are pixels.  If that is what appeals to rubes, that is their problem, but I will be playing something else.  </p>
<p>The real problem with P2W games is the companies eventually get too greedy and focus on the few suckers who spend thousands of dollars, and ride that for all it is worth, to the extent that the game becomes so unfriendly to new players that the player base drys up.</p>
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		<title>By: Redbeard</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/11/24/evolution-of-the-f2p-model-pay-to-win-is-coming/#comment-16779</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Redbeard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Nov 2011 22:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5936#comment-16779</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This has the feel to it of paying in game gold to the cream of the raiding guilds so that you can tag along and get the Lich King kill.  The only difference is that it is built into the game system, so that the game company gets a cut of the profits.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has the feel to it of paying in game gold to the cream of the raiding guilds so that you can tag along and get the Lich King kill.  The only difference is that it is built into the game system, so that the game company gets a cut of the profits.</p>
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		<title>By: Tesh</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/11/24/evolution-of-the-f2p-model-pay-to-win-is-coming/#comment-16778</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tesh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:59:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5936#comment-16778</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In other words, if there&#039;s a game design imbalance, I&#039;d say address that.  Whether someone purchases it with time or money, it&#039;s still the imbalance in the design itself that&#039;s at fault.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In other words, if there&#8217;s a game design imbalance, I&#8217;d say address that.  Whether someone purchases it with time or money, it&#8217;s still the imbalance in the design itself that&#8217;s at fault.</p>
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		<title>By: Tesh</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/11/24/evolution-of-the-f2p-model-pay-to-win-is-coming/#comment-16777</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tesh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5936#comment-16777</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not angry with you.  Sorry it reads that way, it&#039;s not intended.

No, I just see way too much fussing in game communities about the Other Guy, instead of just playing the game.  It&#039;s a quirk that comes with MMOs being as social as they are, but envy and greed are troublesome beasties.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not angry with you.  Sorry it reads that way, it&#8217;s not intended.</p>
<p>No, I just see way too much fussing in game communities about the Other Guy, instead of just playing the game.  It&#8217;s a quirk that comes with MMOs being as social as they are, but envy and greed are troublesome beasties.</p>
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		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/11/24/evolution-of-the-f2p-model-pay-to-win-is-coming/#comment-16776</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5936#comment-16776</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I still really don&#039;t understand the anger. 

You&#039;re upset that I&#039;m not delirious about the prospect of players being able to buy their way to virtual superiority in games? Of course some players always have an advantage, but some advantages are more corrosive and damaging than others (to the players).

I don&#039;t think it&#039;s inevitable that talking about inequalities will destroy communities, or that not talking about them won&#039;t. LoL is widely cited as a well balanced game, for example, and its community is execrable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still really don&#8217;t understand the anger. </p>
<p>You&#8217;re upset that I&#8217;m not delirious about the prospect of players being able to buy their way to virtual superiority in games? Of course some players always have an advantage, but some advantages are more corrosive and damaging than others (to the players).</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s inevitable that talking about inequalities will destroy communities, or that not talking about them won&#8217;t. LoL is widely cited as a well balanced game, for example, and its community is execrable.</p>
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		<title>By: bhagpuss</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/11/24/evolution-of-the-f2p-model-pay-to-win-is-coming/#comment-16773</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bhagpuss]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5936#comment-16773</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The way I&#039;ve played MMOs for many, many years should be completely unaffected by P2W strategies but I will benefit hugely from access to games for no cover charge. 

It&#039;s unusual for me to reach maximum level even in an MMO I play for years. I have no interest in raiding or most end-game play. I enjoy PvP but don&#039;t much care whether I am good at it or not. And most importantly, by far my favorite gameplay is low-level pottering around.

If people with high disposable income and/or poor self control choose to keep MMO companies churning out product by buying vastly overpriced goods and services to gain competitive advantage against their peers then bully for them. They&#039;ll be playing in parts of the game I would never have bothered with, doing things I wouldn&#039;t have wanted to do with people i wouldn&#039;t want to meet. Meanwhile I&#039;ll be wandering about beneath their attention horizon, enjoying myself for nothing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way I&#8217;ve played MMOs for many, many years should be completely unaffected by P2W strategies but I will benefit hugely from access to games for no cover charge. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s unusual for me to reach maximum level even in an MMO I play for years. I have no interest in raiding or most end-game play. I enjoy PvP but don&#8217;t much care whether I am good at it or not. And most importantly, by far my favorite gameplay is low-level pottering around.</p>
<p>If people with high disposable income and/or poor self control choose to keep MMO companies churning out product by buying vastly overpriced goods and services to gain competitive advantage against their peers then bully for them. They&#8217;ll be playing in parts of the game I would never have bothered with, doing things I wouldn&#8217;t have wanted to do with people i wouldn&#8217;t want to meet. Meanwhile I&#8217;ll be wandering about beneath their attention horizon, enjoying myself for nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: Tesh</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/11/24/evolution-of-the-f2p-model-pay-to-win-is-coming/#comment-16772</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tesh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5936#comment-16772</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Someone always has the advantage.  The sooner players (and devs) acknowledge that, the sooner games will work better.  Balance is an illusion, *especially* in MMOs.  There are too many players, too many variables.

...of course, devs can and probably should strive to make PvP as balanced as possible, but yes, I am very, very tired of people whining about what other players have and how they got it.  It&#039;s corrosive, and destroys a community and possibly even a genre.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone always has the advantage.  The sooner players (and devs) acknowledge that, the sooner games will work better.  Balance is an illusion, *especially* in MMOs.  There are too many players, too many variables.</p>
<p>&#8230;of course, devs can and probably should strive to make PvP as balanced as possible, but yes, I am very, very tired of people whining about what other players have and how they got it.  It&#8217;s corrosive, and destroys a community and possibly even a genre.</p>
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		<title>By: Melponeme_k</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/11/24/evolution-of-the-f2p-model-pay-to-win-is-coming/#comment-16771</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Melponeme_k]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5936#comment-16771</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From what I&#039;ve seen in Wizard 101 and Lord of the Rings Online, the goals of F2P don&#039;t become new content per se but finding what players use the most and slowly inflating the price.

In Wizard 101, the money isn&#039;t made in pets, mounts or even houses.  Its the mundane items like helpful potions and fighting companions.  The game is subtly changed to up the need on these items and simultaneously raising their prices.

Frankly it&#039;s getting old for me, and I will be less likely to start playing any F2P games from now on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From what I&#8217;ve seen in Wizard 101 and Lord of the Rings Online, the goals of F2P don&#8217;t become new content per se but finding what players use the most and slowly inflating the price.</p>
<p>In Wizard 101, the money isn&#8217;t made in pets, mounts or even houses.  Its the mundane items like helpful potions and fighting companions.  The game is subtly changed to up the need on these items and simultaneously raising their prices.</p>
<p>Frankly it&#8217;s getting old for me, and I will be less likely to start playing any F2P games from now on.</p>
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		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2011/11/24/evolution-of-the-f2p-model-pay-to-win-is-coming/#comment-16770</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2011 13:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=5936#comment-16770</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The thing I&#039;d highlight is that the pets and mounts are generally cosmetic. (LOTRO is edging towards making the paid mounts marginally faster than most of the in game ones but it&#039;s not by much.)

But a game that had pay to win more deeply embedded might not need to be around for several years, if the gameplay attracted players who liked that model.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing I&#8217;d highlight is that the pets and mounts are generally cosmetic. (LOTRO is edging towards making the paid mounts marginally faster than most of the in game ones but it&#8217;s not by much.)</p>
<p>But a game that had pay to win more deeply embedded might not need to be around for several years, if the gameplay attracted players who liked that model.</p>
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