That’s the definition of depth, something that’s been shoehorned out of MMO’s in the larger sense. If your WoW character is weak, the only solution to that problem is raiding – there’s no other way to solve it, so the game is telling you what to do.

Even the raiding has lost depth. By introducing gimmicks like climbing a web, the game arbitrarily decides whether you fail or not. The players can’t find their own solution, so the game loses depth.

Out of the whole list, that’s Greg Street’s biggest problem – he doesn’t know what depth is, much less how best to include it.

A decent bout of EVE would solve it for him.

This is a really interesting topic and is obviously being debated alot these days in MMO communities. I think at the heart of the matter is the risk vs. reward aspect as mentioned earlier, and its affect on meaningful game play and in game community. As someone who started in the unforgiving world of EQ1, i found the novelty of WoW and EQ2 risk free game play, and solo-able content refreshing for quite some time. But over the years the experience has grown to be hollow, and unrewarding.

I found EVE about 4 years ago. It took along time for it to stick. I’ve unsubbed about 4 times, but i keep coming back. There is something about EVE that is so unique. Being a part of a truly massive cohesive virtual world got under my skin, and left me wanting. It left me wanting to reach the true potential of the game, which at first is illusory and evasive. The game is so complex, with so many different means to the same end. And its a truly harsh and unforgiving place. Its a world were the clever and daring are rewarded. Where the strong do as they will, and the week suffer as they must. The highs are unbelievable, and the lows can be downright sickening. Achievement in EVE is so rewarding, because if your not careful, can can lose it all. Its not simply about grinding raids until you have ever best in slot, and then waiting for next xpac and doing it all again. And after experiencing the freedom of game play, i dont think ill ever be able to enjoy the on rails and restrictive aspects of theme parks. EVE definitely isnt for everyone. But for those seeking challenge and a cohesive virtual world its the top of the mountain. Beware though, the game does not hold your hand and climbing the mountain is very daunting and can be quite painful. But once you reach the summit, the view breathtaking.

I really hope another daring studio will be able to capture the magic of EVE in a fantasy setting. Fingers crossed for pathfinder online.

I would love to see a sandbox MMO developed with significant depth (which will take time) and a wealth of the better systems that exist currently. But assuming that title went into development today, it wouldn’t release until 2015 or so (and that’s being optimistic) and this genre could have changed drastically by then. You can’t slap together a good sandbox game like you can a themepark (and by ‘good’, I mean the objective ‘a lot of people will pay you money to play it’ definition). Ryzom exists, but it’s lacking the depth associated with high quality sandboxes.

I am clamoring for a good to great sandbox too, but there are more cons to doing it “big” than pros.

Never pay anyone to join their corp, it’s a scam, you won’t get in if you pay them (no one wants to recruit idiots).

It’s a risky tactic, one that has very little guarantee of paying off, and will probably never have the same potential as a themepark title.

That said, I’d love to see it tried.

I really would.

My experience is that there’s always been a strong dose of luck involved in whether I took to a sandbox game or not, and that’s mostly around whether you bump into people you want to play with.

With a theme park game, you get a safe option, because there’s stuff provided for you to do that is (or should be) fun. Maybe there’s no chance of getting anything that’s as epic a high as the siege of Bledmeer Faste, but it guarantees that you don’t get the lows either. And after a day at work and the girls are in bed, I want to spend my couple of hours or leisure time doiung something that’s fun – not rolling the dice on whether I get boring, fun or (rare chance) epic.