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	<title>Comments on: [Question of the Day] Do people who pay  to play get more invested in their game?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/question-of-the-day-do-people-who-pay-to-play-get-more-invested-in-their-game/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/question-of-the-day-do-people-who-pay-to-play-get-more-invested-in-their-game/</link>
	<description>MMOs and game design</description>
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		<title>By: jalindrine</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/question-of-the-day-do-people-who-pay-to-play-get-more-invested-in-their-game/#comment-18711</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jalindrine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 00:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=6464#comment-18711</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Feels chicken &amp; eggish.  When I have time to play, I can justify a subscription.  When I don&#039;t, I can&#039;t, and do more F2P.  Does that make me less invested, or is it a reflection of how busy I am?  Is it time or money that makes me spend my money or time?

I&#039;ve finished GTA3 (okay, minus the last mission) and GTA3:SA, but does the fact that I returned over the course of 3-4 years with each to do so make me more or less invested?  In a sense, GTA was a book series I couldn&#039;t put down.  I played each for days, I&#039;d imagine.  That&#039;s investment.  

(The GTA series, I should add, was my standard, &quot;I don&#039;t have time for to pay for WoW&quot; alternative until F2P to 20 started.)

So my answer is investment is measured most simply &lt;i&gt;and accurately&lt;/i&gt; by time spent gaming, and that it&#039;s ultimately time invested that makes Castronova work.  You don&#039;t get paid for goods/gold because you paid a subscription.  It&#039;s because of the amount of time the virtual goods represent.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Feels chicken &amp; eggish.  When I have time to play, I can justify a subscription.  When I don&#8217;t, I can&#8217;t, and do more F2P.  Does that make me less invested, or is it a reflection of how busy I am?  Is it time or money that makes me spend my money or time?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve finished GTA3 (okay, minus the last mission) and GTA3:SA, but does the fact that I returned over the course of 3-4 years with each to do so make me more or less invested?  In a sense, GTA was a book series I couldn&#8217;t put down.  I played each for days, I&#8217;d imagine.  That&#8217;s investment.  </p>
<p>(The GTA series, I should add, was my standard, &#8220;I don&#8217;t have time for to pay for WoW&#8221; alternative until F2P to 20 started.)</p>
<p>So my answer is investment is measured most simply <i>and accurately</i> by time spent gaming, and that it&#8217;s ultimately time invested that makes Castronova work.  You don&#8217;t get paid for goods/gold because you paid a subscription.  It&#8217;s because of the amount of time the virtual goods represent.</p>
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		<title>By: nuggettygoodness</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/question-of-the-day-do-people-who-pay-to-play-get-more-invested-in-their-game/#comment-18596</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nuggettygoodness]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 03:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=6464#comment-18596</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nailed it there Spinksness, I don&#039;t think there was a single person on legend who played over a month who didn&#039;t come to feel a sense of ownership. Which is not something I&#039;ve ever been able to find again in commercial models.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nailed it there Spinksness, I don&#8217;t think there was a single person on legend who played over a month who didn&#8217;t come to feel a sense of ownership. Which is not something I&#8217;ve ever been able to find again in commercial models.</p>
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		<title>By: Stabs</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/question-of-the-day-do-people-who-pay-to-play-get-more-invested-in-their-game/#comment-18593</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stabs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 23:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=6464#comment-18593</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No of course not. The point of spending £80 per month is to win 90% of your fights. If everyone was at the same level it would merely be an expensive game in which I have no edge over anyone else.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No of course not. The point of spending £80 per month is to win 90% of your fights. If everyone was at the same level it would merely be an expensive game in which I have no edge over anyone else.</p>
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		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/question-of-the-day-do-people-who-pay-to-play-get-more-invested-in-their-game/#comment-18578</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 09:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=6464#comment-18578</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I also wonder about how economically influenced design decisions affect these things. 

In older games that were noted for how attached players got, like Angband/Diablo2/Dwarf Fortress (just picking one genre I know about) the original design was for a freeware game. So there was no original intent for profit, the game was just designed to be fun. Same with MU*, they were designed to be fun games for people to mess around in for free. And those were both genres that were quite influential for MMOs.

So one of the questions may be: can a game be that fun and that sticky if maximising profit is a stronger design goal than that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also wonder about how economically influenced design decisions affect these things. </p>
<p>In older games that were noted for how attached players got, like Angband/Diablo2/Dwarf Fortress (just picking one genre I know about) the original design was for a freeware game. So there was no original intent for profit, the game was just designed to be fun. Same with MU*, they were designed to be fun games for people to mess around in for free. And those were both genres that were quite influential for MMOs.</p>
<p>So one of the questions may be: can a game be that fun and that sticky if maximising profit is a stronger design goal than that.</p>
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		<title>By: Zellviren</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/question-of-the-day-do-people-who-pay-to-play-get-more-invested-in-their-game/#comment-18577</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zellviren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 09:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=6464#comment-18577</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Irrespective of the impact on the wider community, my choice is made entirely by a very simple mantra; the lore, the world and my place in both.

Money simply isn’t a driving factor for me at any stage.  I’ve spent thousands watching a crap football team over my years, and am comfortable that this activity will continue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Irrespective of the impact on the wider community, my choice is made entirely by a very simple mantra; the lore, the world and my place in both.</p>
<p>Money simply isn’t a driving factor for me at any stage.  I’ve spent thousands watching a crap football team over my years, and am comfortable that this activity will continue.</p>
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		<title>By: spinks</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/question-of-the-day-do-people-who-pay-to-play-get-more-invested-in-their-game/#comment-18575</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spinks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 09:08:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=6464#comment-18575</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the conclusion I come to is that I don&#039;t want to just be a consumer for the MMOs I really love, I want to be part of the community. Whether that means getting to know the staff on a MU* and eventually helping out like that, or being part of an in-game community, for me to feel that I have a real stake in it, I need to somehow be part of creating content.

The thing I remember with MU* is that they always felt like our game, joint between staff and players. So the more MMOs shift towards a producer/ consumer bias, probably the more I tend to drift away. It&#039;s not about the money, I&#039;m happy to pay for stuff I use. It&#039;s about the relationship between the players and the game and the game producers.

But I may be weird ;) Also pretty sure I&#039;m not the type of player they&#039;re looking for going forwards.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the conclusion I come to is that I don&#8217;t want to just be a consumer for the MMOs I really love, I want to be part of the community. Whether that means getting to know the staff on a MU* and eventually helping out like that, or being part of an in-game community, for me to feel that I have a real stake in it, I need to somehow be part of creating content.</p>
<p>The thing I remember with MU* is that they always felt like our game, joint between staff and players. So the more MMOs shift towards a producer/ consumer bias, probably the more I tend to drift away. It&#8217;s not about the money, I&#8217;m happy to pay for stuff I use. It&#8217;s about the relationship between the players and the game and the game producers.</p>
<p>But I may be weird <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  Also pretty sure I&#8217;m not the type of player they&#8217;re looking for going forwards.</p>
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		<title>By: nuggettygoodness</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/question-of-the-day-do-people-who-pay-to-play-get-more-invested-in-their-game/#comment-18574</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nuggettygoodness]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 08:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=6464#comment-18574</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I do think you&#039;re onto something with MUDs though, I&#039;ve never fallen in love again quite the way I loved LegendMUD... but again, I think the pay is only a small part of it.

But yes, at least for LegendMUD, being part of something so beautiful that was free certainly (for me at least) cultivated and reinforced a very real feeling of community and community pride.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do think you&#8217;re onto something with MUDs though, I&#8217;ve never fallen in love again quite the way I loved LegendMUD&#8230; but again, I think the pay is only a small part of it.</p>
<p>But yes, at least for LegendMUD, being part of something so beautiful that was free certainly (for me at least) cultivated and reinforced a very real feeling of community and community pride.</p>
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		<title>By: nuggettygoodness</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/question-of-the-day-do-people-who-pay-to-play-get-more-invested-in-their-game/#comment-18573</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nuggettygoodness]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 08:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=6464#comment-18573</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Eh, no difference for me.

Most I&#039;ve spent on a single game is WoW - 3 year subs + xpac + going back for cata on a clean account.

GW comes second after that over the last 3 years on cash shop fripperies and lolmerc slots.

FW comes a close tie-in to GW in just over 10 months... (eek).

Love GW, like FW very much, WoW&#039;s not my cup of tea anymore. Don&#039;t think the money *I SPENT* has anything to do with that.

Had a terrible experience in GW2 beta, so not touching that till release.

However... the economically influenced design differences between WoW, GW and FW are huge - perhaps that plays into attachment more directly than whether or not someone spent / how much money someone spent on any given game?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eh, no difference for me.</p>
<p>Most I&#8217;ve spent on a single game is WoW &#8211; 3 year subs + xpac + going back for cata on a clean account.</p>
<p>GW comes second after that over the last 3 years on cash shop fripperies and lolmerc slots.</p>
<p>FW comes a close tie-in to GW in just over 10 months&#8230; (eek).</p>
<p>Love GW, like FW very much, WoW&#8217;s not my cup of tea anymore. Don&#8217;t think the money *I SPENT* has anything to do with that.</p>
<p>Had a terrible experience in GW2 beta, so not touching that till release.</p>
<p>However&#8230; the economically influenced design differences between WoW, GW and FW are huge &#8211; perhaps that plays into attachment more directly than whether or not someone spent / how much money someone spent on any given game?</p>
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		<title>By: welshtroll</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/question-of-the-day-do-people-who-pay-to-play-get-more-invested-in-their-game/#comment-18566</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[welshtroll]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 20:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=6464#comment-18566</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I certainly find it difficult to feel committed to F2P games, I think it maybe the lack of continually releases that put me off.

When I&#039;m subbed to a game I will try to make sure that I get my moneys worth and even though other smaller games are picked up but generally my focus is on the subbed title.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I certainly find it difficult to feel committed to F2P games, I think it maybe the lack of continually releases that put me off.</p>
<p>When I&#8217;m subbed to a game I will try to make sure that I get my moneys worth and even though other smaller games are picked up but generally my focus is on the subbed title.</p>
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		<title>By: Skaggy Doughnut</title>
		<link>http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/question-of-the-day-do-people-who-pay-to-play-get-more-invested-in-their-game/#comment-18563</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Skaggy Doughnut]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 18:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://spinksville.wordpress.com/?p=6464#comment-18563</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[DDO was free to play, I have a vague affection for it, SWTOR requires a sub so commands my love.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DDO was free to play, I have a vague affection for it, SWTOR requires a sub so commands my love.</p>
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