Social learning in MMOs: there are groups and there are GROUPS

I have been throwing myself into the gaping maw of the group finder tool this week on SWTOR and the overall experience has been great, I haven’t had a bad group yet. So why do I keep thinking about how strange it feels to play in a PUG put together by a sorting tool compared to a group of players who had  previous contact, even if it was just via chatting about the group in general chat? Most of all, the overwhelming sense of relief that I already know most of these instances and bosses from having learned them alongside my old guild, where we used to go in blind to see what happened, figure things out as we went along, and chatter on voice chat the whole time.

Frankly, a LFG environment can be a punishing place to learn content for the first time, especially if you are tanking or healing. Other players might turn out to be tolerant mentors, or might just be there for a speed run and guaranteed badges. They might be pleasantly civil, abhorrently rude, or merely silent. And always the looming threat of encountering one of those abusive hardcore player who will rage at anything or anyone which prevents them from collecting their entitlement of badges after a flawless 5 min speedrun.

It can also be a great place to learn content. More experienced players will know the faster routes through the instance, can tell you the smartest tactics, and can explain strategies quickly and simply. The more players you group with, the more you could potentially learn if everyone shares their best tactics on every run.

I can’t say I ever enjoyed trying to learn complex content (like raids) in random groups, however.

So how do we learn in groups?

The relationship of MMOs with groups has always been uncoordinated. These games were designed to include group challenges, but designers left it up to players as to how they would manage the tricks of group formation and learning. Still, we can imagine two main types of learning in groups.

1. The learning group. This would be a group of players that works together and learns content together. They’ll tend to stick with the same core set of members because that way they’ll be able to organise better, to learn each other’s strengths better, and put into use together what they’ve learned in previous runs. Group members will give frequent feedback to help the group improve. They may also offer social support (ie. if one player is nervous about a new raid or role, others will often encourage them: “Of course you can do it!”) Yup, this describes a raid group, or an organised guild. There are lots of theories about how groups form and work together to accomplish tasks, such as learning new instances or raids. But the main thing is that this type of group works together for more than one session and aims to learn as a group. A long standing group will have strategies to bring new members up to speed and include them in group activities, so that the group can keep learning and improving. Players will tend to feel some kind of commitment to the group.

You could also argue that the entire community of a game is a kind of learning group, with various members writing up strategies and tactics and providing video instruction of how to beat various bosses. But I don’t think there are really the kinds of feedback and support mechanisms in place to really underpin that. The resources are great, but they just underpin how difficult the task of learning in a group can be.

2. Learning in groups. You join a group, watch what they do and copy it. This is also known as social learning. Now, human beings will tend to learn all sorts of things in groups as well as boss strategies, such as how to behave towards other players. So if someone plays in LFG a lot and sees people being rude to the tanks or demanding speed runs, they’ll learn that is how you should play the game. While guilds and raids will also expect players to learn from being part of their group, they’ll tend to be more supportive about it than random players (even if they show this ‘support’ in ways like requiring high gear or dps scores before they’ll let you raid with them, that’s still setting a new player a learning target which could be useful.)

When WoW was released, I think the expectation of designers was that players would tend to commit to a guild and that the guild would learn the raids together. The notion that the more ambitious members would be guild hopping a lot wasn’t common at the time. Neither was the thought that a lot of people might not want (or be able) to commit to a guild, but would still be interested in endgame raids. On some servers, typically the RP ones, raid alliances formed so that people could have a raid schedule without leaving their smaller guilds. But the general idea of the raid guild as a learning organisation was built in from the start.

LFG is very much a newer and different kettle of fish. The groups are likely to have a mix of novice and experienced players, of people who know the content from people who don’t, characters who are overgeared and characters who are undergeared. So the kind of content that they want isn’t going to be the same as a dedicated learning group who will patiently wipe while they learn how best to handle a new boss.

I personally think the great flaw of Cataclysm was making the heroic instances both too hard at the start AND accessible via LFG. They weren’t too hard for learning groups, and in guild groups they were challenging and fun. But for LFG they were way too tough, and the fact that players had become used to fast easy LFG runs in Wrath didn’t help. If LFG had been restricted to normal mode instances at the start of Cataclysm so that the player base could learn the instances and gear up in a more forgiving environment, I think they would have been fine. No amount of gear requirements can really overcome the difficulty that players who have only learned content socially will have with new and complex encounters, if the more experienced members of the player base aren’t willing to patiently teach. And expecting people to patiently teach strangers (who may be idiots!) is a very different expectation to wanting them to teach members of their own guild. Blizzard I think has finally understood this with their easy mode LFR raids.

It isn’t fair to expect a random group to perform like a specialised learning group. But there is still one type of learning that devs haven’t really supported, and that is players who would rather learn and perfect an encounter on their own before joining a group. Diablo 3 shows how this can work. You can run through all the bosses on single player mode before ever joining a group, if you want. I think a lot of players would feel more comfortable if they could do something similar for MMO instances and raids. I have certainly played games where many of the raid mechanics show up in single player quests (SWTOR likes to teach you to interrupt, for example), but it isn’t the same as being able to practice an encounter carefully and at your own pace.

I suspect that presenting LFG groups with content that is too difficult for players to learn in those groups just adds to the stress levels. Players in general are not patient enough to say “I’ll come back when I have geared up more” or “I’ll try the normal mode a few more times” : they see the reward and the button that says “Queue for LFG” and they figure its worth a shot. And players who are already geared up and do already know the strategies will just be frustrated with queuing with people who don’t, particularly when explaining the strategies is tricky or would take ages.

This just adds to the stress for anyone new who is trying to learn an instance by PUGging it, which they are more likely to have to since the rest of their guild is probably off somewhere in the LFG tool too. Devs can help with this by making the encounters reasonably straightforwards, by providing as many pointers as possible in the environment (ie. graphical and sound indicators about what is going to happen), which I think they generally try to do in boss fights. Players can help by using LFG and trying to make it as pleasant and civil experience for everyone as possible. We can all shape what other players learn from their social experiences in our groups, just by modelling how we’d like people to behave towards us.

So if my SWTOR groups have been good, it is partly because the instances are quite fun, but mostly because the players themselves have been good humoured about the experience. People who were up front about their wish for a quick run and quick badges being understood and accepted by the rest of the group, people who explain that this is their first time in an instance being given the explanations they need, people who use raid markers for CC being chilled when CC is accidentally broken, the group just casually adapting if someone makes a mistake without making an issue of it, and so on.

It came from the PUG


Yes I was in a random group with someone called Fifty and someone called Shades. I would name my next alt Grey to keep the theme but I think it’s already been taken. (This means that yes, there is a possibility of a Fifty Shades of Grey instance group on my server.)

12 thoughts on “Social learning in MMOs: there are groups and there are GROUPS

  1. Is part of the problem with having to learn in PuGs that WoW and its imitators require you to ‘learn’ each boss fight rather than learn transferable skills? So much of the difficulty is knowing the specific tactics and moves for a fight, which you have no chance of knowing unless you’ve run this dungeon before or at least have studied it on YouTube.

    I wonder if it’s possible to design a game where the key is playing your character well, which would be easily applied to whatever situation you found. Didn’t Tobold do some musing about the idea of raid bosses with random abilities a while back, which would hopefully force players to adapt and improvise rather than learning a set dance?

  2. What I’ve seen so far is that LFG on TOR is still an optional thing, whereas LFG on WoW is just about required use. Perhaps it is because people are still used to asking in Gen Chat for help with Heroics on TOR that it isn’t a big issue. WoW, on the other hand, embraced LFG almost instantly when it dropped and hasn’t looked back since.

    I expect that LFR will become the dominant method of viewing endgame when Mists drops, most likely much to the chagrin of the raiding guilds. Perhaps that’s why WoW came up with Pet Battles in the first place, because they realize that people will be saying “I’m bored!” quicker than ever with LFR available.

    • I think people are still playing around with it, some in my guild still make guild groups but use LFG for the daily tokens. Others on the server are using it more to queue solo because I am starting to see some of the same names in my group (which is the nice thing about server specific LFG). It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

      I think you are probably right about LFR in WoW. If it means you can just queue on whichever evening is most convenient rather than keeping a guild schedule, that alone will make it appealing to a lot of players.

      • LFR is a perhaps the greatest gift WoW has ever given me for that very reason. I am a grown man and do not want to have to schedule my free time around ‘raid night’ because that is the action of a crazy person but I still want to raid. LFR fufills this wonderfully.

        Though, on subject of MoP, Blizzard is introducing an almost comically absurd amount of stuff to do at level cap. So that’s goingg to be interesting to watch play out.

      • Not really sure why that’s crazier than — say — my partner scheduling one night a week for quiz night at the pub with his mates. Except when it takes up most of the weeknights ofc 🙂

      • Considering that I still play RPGs regularly, I look at neither of them as crazy. Just so long as you don’t run up a bar tab that’s greater than you can pay off, I suppose….

  3. Wow, I must have been in the wrong Guild at the start of Cata. I prefered LFG Heroics over Guild Heroics because I knew that there was a chance I’d see the final boss. On my resto Shaman no less. We had a Warrior Tank join the Guild about 6 months into Cata who was shocked that the Guild achievement for running the heroics had not been done. He and I drug 1-2 of our DPS through the lot of them in order to get the achievement before he got tired of us and left.
    Now that I play TOR, and am presently Guildless (and not at level cap either) I am of two minds of joining a Guild because with the LFG tool, there is nothing that I can’t eventually see in the game.

  4. @kiantremayne: I’m always surprised at the “not transferable skills” mantra which has been propagating in the blogosphere. As I already wrote somewhere: do you really think that the people at Blizzard are so good as to be able to crank out a new mechanics for each boss (replace Blizzard with any other MMO company)?
    They aren’t. Boss fights are built around few and similar building blocks: the only skill needed is being able to recognize them and apply what you already learned on other boss fights. The typical example being the dragon, which any semi-competent tank will immediately orient away from the group. Of course you should not expect to one-shot a new boss, they are not meant to be one-shot (even if with an excellent group, they can), but it takes very short to understand how it works. Of course this is an acquired skill, the more experience you have, the easier it becomes…..

    • Maybe I should talk about “semi-transferable” skills instead 🙂 Yes, there are a lot of boss mechanics that are common, but nonetheless the point is that evey boss fight these days puts a lot more premium on knowing the mechanics of this specific fight rather than generalised “being good at playing a paladin” skills that you can apply in EVERY fight. Experience with other boss fights is a big help, but you still need to pick up the specifics of each particular one… which means your first run through either needs an experienced (with this fight) person to explain what to do, or else you’ll probably cause at least one wipe while you learn the hard way. Which is only a problem if you’re in a run with someone who doesn’t want to take the time to explain but doesn’t want any wipes delaying him getting his badges or what have you.

  5. You nailed it with how people learn. I also think that is the reason for the declining community in warcraft personally. People act the way they see other people act and even if, as a person, they know better they begin to emulate what they see around them.

    I remember when I started raiding. I joined a raiding guild and they were kind enough to let me tag along that first week running some older content so I could gear up and even if I did read about the fights beforehand how I learned was by watching what others did and emulated it.

    I am now the raid leader of my guild and a rather old guild mate that no longer plays often had popped on and heard me leading one of the raids. He said to me, you sound exactly like dave. Dave was the raid leader I learned from. Even something like that, which I did not realize, I learned to be a raid leader from him. So you learn even without knowing you are learning sometimes.

    People will usually change and adapt to their surroundings and how you play games and handle yourself in trade or randoms, is no different.

    But more on topic then my rambling above is this…

    I think it would be almost impossible for new people to learn in most random environments because of what people have “learned” from doing them before hand. Most people do not want to wait until they get more gear, they do not want to learn how to do it on their own first (which would be awesome if they added a solo version like in diablo), they do as you said, they see the reward and queue up and expect to be able to do it. It also seems like most people have “learned” that everyone is bad and it is okay to insult anyone that does not know how to do something instead of teaching them.

    Glad to say I have not learned that yet but it sure seems like most have. And people will only emulate those people that are rude and insulting because as you said, you learn from the group you are in.

    You seem to be having some good luck, I hope it stays that way for you.

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